If we remain healthy on the offensive side of the ball this year

[stankowalski]

...and we finish in the top 5 for offense will you be able to give any credit to Shula?

This has been a somewhat divisive topic.  Personally I think Shula has done okay for the hand he's been dealt up to this point.  The one season where everyone remained relatively healthy on the offensive side of the ball we did pretty well offensively.  

For the record, if we remain relatively healthy on the offensive side of the ball and don't end up in the top 5 offensively I'll be joining the fire Shula club.

[frash.exe]

as far as offensive coordinators go, i rate shula an elite 5/7

[Daddy_Uncle]

why would I give any credit to an offensive coordinator for a top offense. That seems sillly

[Jangler]

Health doesn't really mean that much, does it,..sometimes? 2015 we were relatively healthy...

Tom Brady got his job and kept it for 15 years due to injury.  

 

 

[GoobyPls]

I gave him credit for that 2015 offense, our receivers were terrible. Still managed a game plan to use them  

[Hogmolliesmaht]

1 hour ago, Jangler said:

Health doesn't really mean that much, does it,..sometimes? 2015 we were relatively healthy...

Tom Brady got his job and kept it for 15 years due to injury.  

 

 

So if Cam was as good as Brady, would it matter who the OC was?

[Jangler]

what do you mean "was" ???

 

[Jackofalltrades]

I don't know, my dislike for him is so strong at this point it would be hard to do. 

[Burnout189]

30 minutes ago, Jackofalltrades said:

I don't know, my dislike for him is so strong at this point it would be hard to do. 

I agree with this too a point. But if he were to help in getting us back to the SB, and then possibly win one I feel he would be redeemed in my eyes.

[Saca312]

I replied to someone else about an objective view of our offense, so I thought it would be applicable here too:

Offense:

Concerning the Kelvin Benjamin Impact, Reads, & Cam's Accuracy

About Cam, someone brought up a real good point. He did look a bit like 2014 in trying to dump his targets off to Kelvin Benjamin all the time. I listened to a recent podcast from Peter King talking about the problem with Cian Fahey.

(Fahey at 35:55, Cam discussion at 45:10 of the 'Ed Bouchette' pod)

To sum it up, they said Kelvin Benjamin deterred Cam Newton's success. The offense force fed Kelvin too much when he really didn't help much. I think they said something about how Ginn and Kelvin weren't that far apart concerning drop rates, but Kelvin's overlooked due to him not getting separation while Ginn's always wide open.

KB's stats were inflated by having a massive amount of targets. He's a good possession receiver defenses have to account for, but I don't think he'll be a true WR1. Without getting that separation, I think his ceiling's limited.

Now back to Cam Newton. I guess when I looked at him, I didn't focus on his progressions more-so than the results of his throws, which often were ruined by WR play or him trying to work with a collapsing o-line. Personally, I thought Cam Newton was deadly accurate last year without much difference from 2015 when you account for whether the throw was Cam's fault or not.

Cam Newton was clearly hurt against the Falcons and Buccanners by the years end. I think that also affected his overall season in a negative way. Fahey mentioned he believed Cam Newton had 7 of his 20 intercept-able passes in the Tampa game alone, so that should tell you a lot.

If I were to nit-pick anything, it's his horizontal throws and anything in the 0-5 yard range. He's got a cannon of an arm, and he needs to learn to temper it. Although I believe our offensive scheme limited him with his short passes, it's fair to say his accuracy needs work. 

With reads, I agree. He reverted back to his old ways in 2014, and I think Kelvin Benjamin's to blame. Cam spread the ball more often to all his wide receivers, thus reducing predictability and putting less stress on himself. I have no idea why Cam feels the need to always force it to Kelvin, but he does. A huge reason for Kelvin's 1000+ yard rookie season was due to his massive targets.

What I will defend though is a sore lack of a true slot receiver in 2016. Greg Olsen had to limit himself by playing slot for 53% of his snaps. I believe Cotchery is the true missing key between success and failure comparing 2015 and 2016. 

When you watch Cotchery in 2015, you see a guy who moved the chains on third downs and got clean separation over the middle. He would make so many clutch catches that kept drives alive. We did not have this luxury in 2016.

I think Cam didn't checkdown much simply due to the fact he didn't have much checkdown options to begin with. Stewart's a damn good runningback, but he showed rust with his receiving skills last year. Tolbert is just lol. Fozzy doesn't inspire confidence either, even though he's supposed to be that 3rd down back.

I think Cam Newton's better than what the perception is of his 2016 season. What I see is a mess of an offense trying to play in the NFL. Cam's accuracy is fine, but his reads need to be less "force feed Olsen and Kelvin Benjamin." Sure, his other WRs sucked, but that doesn't mean he should ignore them.

On our rookies

Yes, it's always important to understand you're evaluating rookies transitioning to the NFL, but you always have to look for those fundamental tools that make past rookies successful in the NFL.

When I watch McCaffrey, I see a lot of that. He's an intelligent player who reads the defense and o-line and determines his course from there. He waits for his o-line to develop - very much like Le'Veon Bell - and runs from there. His running style is comparable to LeSean McCoy, and his overall attributes are close to Brian Westbrook. 

Now, that doesn't mean he'll be on any of their levels right off the gate. That's why they're comparisons rather than absolutes. But he shows the fundamentals of being a good back, even as a rookie. His route running was crisp and fluid, which usually means he could replicate some of that in the pros. He has a good grasp of the fundamentals, and a lot to build on.

Curtis Samuel is a fast guy who's dangerous in space. His speed's deadly and he will outrun defenders. Against some of college's best corners, he shined and didn't let down. There's a lot to be optimistic from his play.

Now to criticize, he body catches too often. His 3.2% drop rate easily made him OSU's most reliable receiver, but that doesn't mean he could work on a few things. Drops are not an issue, but proper catching form may haunt him in the future.

As far as everyone else, we'll see. Moton's a good tackle, but I wonder if he'll actually beat out Daryl Williams, who I already think is an upgrade over Mike Remmers. Daeshon Hall's raw, but he's coachable and learning behind vets should help. Corn Elder is a lot better than advertised. His tape shows a solid corner who can play outside just fine if necessary. Him and Munnerlyn will make fine nickels.

On Coaching

Going back to Peter King's podcast, he mentions how he heard Shula wanted McCaffrey the whole time on draft night. I've read articles in the past on Shula and the Panthers planning to use guys like Samuel and McCaffrey months prior to the draft. 

While this may be blind optimism, I do think we will see a huge change in offensive playcalling and philosophy. Shula gets a lot of flack for playcalling - and rightfully so - but his run designs from 2015 were some of the best in the league. When it comes to design, Shula's able to build it. It's his in-game playcalling that's an issue.

I'll have to wait and see what happens, but I feel that Shula understands this is make-or-break for him, and will strive to ensure we're successful.

On Our Wide-Receivers

I'm more comfortable than I was in years past. As much as we used Ginn in the past, he's still getting old and slower. He's always going to have those Ginn hands. I think Curtis Samuel should be able to replicate that role in a way and be better at it. Although I don't think his deep speed will be on the same level as Ginn, his quickness and cuts are what really give him that shot.

As I already said, we didn't have our slot receiver last year. This year, we have Samuel, McCaffrey, and Shepard. All three are reliable, get separation over the middle, and can move the chains. It's going to be a lot of fun to see how the Panthers do that.

I've dropped my expectations for Charles Johnson as time went on. I wouldn't be surprised to see him cut if he remains injured. He was used as insurance in the case we got no one in the draft, but now we got some. He needs to show in training camp he's better than he was in 2016, otherwise he's going to be looking for a job.

Russell Shepard is a guy I love the more I watch him. He's a big upgrade over Philly Brown with a lot of potential. Crisp route running and gets open. He could be our starting slot guy alongside Curtis Samuel, and I wouldn't complain. At the least, he'll be a move the chains guy who's going to dominate Special Teams.

Kelvin Benjamin. I hope he reaches that level of being a WR1, but I don't know if I want to see that with our new offense. He's a big possession guy who needs to play bigger. I don't want him to hog targets anymore, and he needs to show more effort. I get his ACL was injured in 2016, but he needs to step it up. I believe he will.

Devin Funchess has a lot of potential. At his young age, he's already getting a lot. The issue is he doesn't get that many looks, and doesn't do much with the opportunities he was given. His route running and slants are deadly, but he needs to be more reliable and show that on the field.

There's a lot of potential with this group. Ironically, our perceived WR1 and WR2 are the ones I'm most concerned about. I think this is capable of being a solid group, but it could be just another middle of the pack group. At the least, I think Cam's in a better situation than in 2016.

On our potential

We have a lot of potential. There's a lot of reason to be excited. We could be one of the first offenses to utilize one of the deadliest and deepest option football styles the NFL's just never seen before. Rayzor brought up a good point before when talking of our offensive core:

1. dual threat QB/RB cam
2. dual threat RB/WR mccaffery
3. dual threat WR/RB samuel
4. dual threat TE/WR olsen
5. giant WR KB
6. powerback stewart

These guys are going to be our main focus. We can create so much confusion and mayhem with how many options we can employ. Kelvin Benjamin's going to be that big threat that corners have to account for, so put him somewhere on the field and he's a threat. Olsen's a threat as well and always has been. Our dual threat runningbacks in McCaffrey and Samuel let us line them up in so many ways, and Cam and Stewart still exist as power run threats.

 

I'll just let you soak that in yourself. We have more options and ways to hit defenses than any other team in the NFL with these hybrid players. I like our potential.

What I want to see happen in 2016

I don't want to see Kelvin Benjamin as a WR1. I want to see him used as a big body possession receiver that gets the yards he needs to when he needs to and a deadly red-zone threat. He can't separate and likely never will, but he can use his body to bully defenders and grab the ball. I want him to be more big next year.

Cam Newton needs to spread the ball around when the play calls for it. He needs to go through his progressions and give each of his receivers a chance. No more force feeding Olsen and Kelvin Benjamin; let all your weapons shine.

I want to see Funchess improve and start showing the talent he has inside of him. I feel he'd be a better WR1, but he needs to be more consistent. His flashes show elite talent, but he needs to do that more. Let Cam feel comfortable and show you can use that route-running you show on the practice field on game day.

I want to see Samuel and McCaffrey interchanged as run threat options alongside Stewart and Newton. This year, we no longer have to rely on Cam as our primary other runner, and let these three runners do their job. I still want Newton to keep his running threat alive, but I don't want it to happen often. 

I want to see our offense use our option players to the max. We have the capability of being the most complex and deadly offense in the league just based on how many hybrid players we have. I want Shula to figure it out and put it together.

This could be our best offense ever under Cam. We have that potential. It's up to the players and coaches to make it all work out.

[nctarheel0619]

We writing novels and s hit on the Huddle now?  That's what's hot?  OHHHHHHHHH K.  

[ecu88]

@Saca312

With our diversity on offense, I would like to see a shotgun variety of the formations with CMC, KB13, Thor, Curtis and Fun fun on the field.

Variations of:

Shotgun Empty Y Saints

Shotgun Empty Steeler

with Cam sending pieces in motion. For instance, CMC in the slot with Curtis motioned to the backfield next to Cam. 

Our offense is going to give D Coords nightmares.

 

[Lumps]

First of all we still have the same offense as last year. Let's start cutting down on knee jerk threads early and NOT expect rookies to be the end all.

Also, unfortunately, more often than not, our great offensive games and seasons come from overcoming bad playcalling by our players. Stats won't tell this, but go back and watch individual games. The players should get much more credit than play calling, and by a long shot.

I've said it before and again...Shula would not be an OC anywhere else in the NFL if the Panthers released him today. That says something.

[JawnyBlaze]

Depends on what the play calling looks like this year. I try to avoid judging individuals on the success of a group, unless it's the HC. If Shula's play calling looks like hot garbage like it has so far and Cam & co. are just making up for it like in 2015, then yes I'll continue to hate him. If the playbook (and situational playcalling) is indeed better then I'll be glad and start warming up to Shula.