A Look At Curtis Samuel In The NFL's Best Uniform Catching One Handers

[Saca312]

@thomas96 I do hope you understand this was worded in a way where it should be obvious exaggeration and humor was used. I apologize if you actually considered this to be any concrete analysis.

I do try to stay objective when need be, but what I'm seeing now is a complete team. If I saw any weaknesses, I would've said something. Right now, I see a complete team that looks like it could be one of our best when healthy.

I do understand some posts of mine do sound too optimistic due to my wording. For one, Cam I do believe is underrated for his accuracy, but I also understand his passes in the 0-5 range need work, especially horizontal ones. Russell Shepard looks really good from his few chances, but he still needs to prove it over more than just one season. Our rookies are rookies. Left tackle situation makes me uneasy knowing Kalil's history and Oher being done. Plenty of things to sulk over if you want to get picky.

But right now, I'll stand by when I say this defense can push for one of our better ones in franchise history and our offense is the best one we have yet under Cam. I'd love to hear your own thoughts on everything too, considering you also look at film.

My posts are worded in a way that sounds optimistic, which I probably should work on fixing. But I'd be lying if this season doesn't excite me.

[t96]

1 hour ago, Saca312 said:

@thomas96 I do hope you understand this was worded in a way where it should be obvious exaggeration and humor was used. I apologize if you actually considered this to be any concrete analysis.

I do try to stay objective when need be, but what I'm seeing now is a complete team. If I saw any weaknesses, I would've said something. Right now, I see a complete team that looks like it could be one of our best when healthy.

I do understand some posts of mine do sound too optimistic due to my wording. For one, Cam I do believe is underrated for his accuracy, but I also understand his passes in the 0-5 range need work, especially horizontal ones. Russell Shepard looks really good from his few chances, but he still needs to prove it over more than just one season. Our rookies are rookies. Left tackle situation makes me uneasy knowing Kalil's history and Oher being done. Plenty of things to sulk over if you want to get picky.

But right now, I'll stand by when I say this defense can push for one of our better ones in franchise history and our offense is the best one we have yet under Cam. I'd love to hear your own thoughts on everything too, considering you also look at film.

My posts are worded in a way that sounds optimistic, which I probably should work on fixing. But I'd be lying if this season doesn't excite me.

I'm not talking about this post in specific. I'm extremely excited and optimistic about this season but we still have a ton of unknowns, many of which you are convinced will be very great, which is part of what I have a problem with. Some of my thoughts, and I would absolutely enjoy discussing this with you...

Offense Question Marks

Cam: This is somewhat of an unknown here right now. Cam was bad last season. There's no other way to cut it. Blame injuries, coaching, poor weapons, poor line, etc. all you want but those are ultimately just excuses. They all factored big time into why our offense was so bad, yes. But Cam was bad along with the rest of them (and when I say bad I don't mean like shouldn't be starting or bottom of the league or anything, I mean bad compared to what he's expected to be). It was like watching two different players in 2015 and 2016. 2015 Cam routinely went through all his progressions, taking what the defense gave him while also going for and getting some home runs. His accuracy has never been perfect but that's not his game and in 2015 he was by far the best player in the league. In 2016, Cam routinely locked onto KB or Greg instead of looking for guys like Funch, check downs, etc. It looked like 2014 again. And you can't really say coaching is to blame here, yes there are coaching problems but they were there in '15 too. Line was more stable too of course, but that wasn't it. Many instances Cam had time and didn't make a play he would've made in 2015. In addition, Cam is coming off shoulder surgery with new, unfamiliar targets. 

Possible outcomes: 

-Cam could return to his 2015 MVP form, this is absolutely possible and maybe slightly likely, but far from a lock or something to be assumed. It comes down to a couple things to me... Coaching staff needs to stop using him as a battering ram, take the run game out of his hands and have him focus on being a pocket passer with evasiveness in the pocket and the ability to scramble when the time presents itself. The slim down needs to be more than just off season chatter. He needs to regain some speed for scrambling and evasiveness in the pocket that has been lacking recently. He needs to get back to going through his progressions and reads, and his accuracy needs to improve back to '13 and '15 form. 

-But there's also the possibility Cam plays more like his '14 and '16 seasons struggling with consistency. I've seen a lot of football in my days and there are tons of players who have a season like Cam did in '15 that turned out to be an outlier. I hope Cam can prove that season more the norm, and from what I know about Cam I think this is possible but can't be assumed to be the case until we see more. 

Rookies: McC, Samuel and Moton all excite the hell out of me but I think it's unfair to place some of the expectations on them that you and others have. Rookies are rookies and are by definition big question marks until we see something concrete on the field from them against NFL competition, which we haven't. 

WR: Question marks all around here. Could be a good group, could be among the worst in the NFL. Losing Ginn may not seem like a big deal but it could turn out to be. KB and Funch need to show consistency, Shep is still an unknown despite a little success last year, Johnson is an unknown, the rookies unknown too. Group could be anywhere from top 5 to bottom 5. No reason to assume or guess that it'll be a great group because nothing has shown that here.

FB: Of lesser importance but Young was out of the league for a year and not particularly great before that and our rookie Armah (who I love and want to have huge success and a long sustained career as a Panther) is very raw and naturally, as a rookie, unknown. We use the FB position enough to consider this, and while Tolbert really didn't offer much at all, the position is important. We need an upgrade on him, and if Young or Armah isn't an upgrade then there are reasons to be concerned.

Tackle: As you said in another post, Kalil is a huge question mark. But so is RT. Williams has been very inconsistent as a pass protector and above average (not dominant) in the run game, and Moton is a huge unknown. Both tackles spots are a big concern right now.

Coaching: Tons of concerns here, having to do with the offensive 'evolution,' how the rookies will be used, how Cam will be used, what Lance can get out of the wideouts, etc. 

 

Offense on the surface seems like it has the potential to be a repeat of '15 or better but a lot has to go into that and a lot of things have to fall into place, and I'm not convinced that happens. I'm hopeful that it does but I'm weary based on what I've seen.

 

Defense Question Marks: 

DE: This group is a big concern to me. CJ has had a ton of injury issues and has been fading as a pass rusher. Still a solid overall player but not the force he once was. Ideally wouldn't be a starter. Pep a great story and has some things to offer but expectations should be tempered. Hasn't played in a 4-3 for several years and age are factors. Unlikely to be a dominant force with a large role, but solid piece. Addison is the big question mark here, and the determining factor in this group. Showed promise in a larger role last year and I love the kid, but still has struggled against the run and has not proven at all over a large sample size that he can be a dominant player. If he can turn the corner like Hardy did a few years ago then that'll be huge for the team, but it's not a given. Horton is merely a solid run defender, and Hall unlikely to have much of an impact as a rookie. If Mario can't be the guy then this group missing an elite all around player is a big concern.

SS: Adams is likely an upgrade over Harper a few years ago even, but still uncertain especially at his age and our safety depth is a huge huge concern. If Adams or Coleman goes down we could be in trouble. Team seems to like Marlowe quite a bit, but he's yet to see any real NFL action and I wouldn't be comfortable with him starting back there.

CB: I love James and Daryl here but they are by no means sure things as top level starters yet. Have to put it all together still and show consistency. Bradberry quite a bit further along but still he's not a sure thing and Worley has his struggles. Huge concern is depth here. Captain great at nickel, not so much outside. Corn is a rookie and small for outside so not convinced on him either though of course possible he turns out to be solid depth.

 

 

There really are a fair amount of concerns you and any objective fan/observer should have. I'm extremely excited and optimistic about this season overall and I think it could be our year if even half of these question marks I've laid out turn out in our favor. But it's far from a given or something one should expect. And there are other depth concerns too like TE, entire OL, etc. Overall I'm extremely pleased with where we're at, and think our outlook is better than it was going into our special 2015 season. But we also all thought last year we'd be close to 2015 level and we couldn't have been more wrong. I don't think people should set themselves up for disappointment by thinking we have essentially no weaknesses or question marks, and by disappointment I don't mean to say we won't have success, but that some of these parts of the team won't come near expectations.

Training Camp will give me a much better perspective on some of these question marks and more tangible information, so I think we'll have a better read on the team around that time. Right now a lot is tough to say, and my problem is that you are fluffing all these things like they're certainties when they're far from it.

[uncfan888]

Buzzkill

[shaqattaq]

We would change our name weekly for the sign at wherever we were playing. Free Beer, Lobster Buffet, and Teenage Sluts were some we used.

I would totally pay a cover for any of those things. Not you're a marketing genius.

Sent using the amazing CarolinaHuddle mobile app

[Saca312]

@thomas96 Don't worry. Nothing's a certainty with my analysis. It's fair that I do need to be more objective even on this forum, so I get where you're coming from.

I'll try to remain objective here. For now, I'll talk offense:

Offense:

Concerning the Kelvin Benjamin Impact, Reads, & Cam's Accuracy

About Cam, you brought up a real good point. He did look a bit like 2014 in trying to dump his targets off to Kelvin Benjamin all the time. I listened to a recent podcast from Peter King talking about the problem with Cian Fahey.

(Fahey at 35:55, Cam discussion at 45:10 of the 'Ed Bouchette' pod)

 

To sum it up, they said Kelvin Benjamin deterred Cam Newton's success. The offense force fed Kelvin too much when he really didn't help much. I think they said something about how Ginn and Kelvin weren't that far apart concerning drop rates, but Kelvin's overlooked due to him not getting separation while Ginn's always wide open.

KB's stats were inflated by having a massive amount of targets. He's a good possession receiver defenses have to account for, but I don't think he'll be a true WR1. Without getting that separation, I think his ceiling's limited.

Now back to Cam Newton. I guess when I looked at him, I didn't focus on his progressions more-so than the results of his throws, which often were ruined by WR play or him trying to work with a collapsing o-line. Personally, I thought Cam Newton was deadly accurate last year without much difference from 2015 when you account for whether the throw was Cam's fault or not.

Cam Newton was clearly hurt against the Falcons and Buccanners by the years end. I think that also affected his overall season in a negative way. Fahey mentioned he believed Cam Newton had 7 of his 20 intercept-able passes in the Tampa game alone, so that should tell you a lot.

If I were to nit-pick anything, it's his horizontal throws and anything in the 0-5 yard range. He's got a cannon of an arm, and he needs to learn to temper it. Although I believe our offensive scheme limited him with his short passes, it's fair to say his accuracy needs work. 

With reads, I agree. He reverted back to his old ways in 2014, and I think Kelvin Benjamin's to blame. Cam spread the ball more often to all his wide receivers, thus reducing predictability and putting less stress on himself. I have no idea why Cam feels the need to always force it to Kelvin, but he does. A huge reason for Kelvin's 1000+ yard rookie season was due to his massive targets.

What I will defend though is a sore lack of a true slot receiver in 2016. Greg Olsen had to limit himself by playing slot for 53% of his snaps. I believe Cotchery is the true missing key between success and failure comparing 2015 and 2016. 

When you watch Cotchery in 2015, you see a guy who moved the chains on third downs and got clean separation over the middle. He would make so many clutch catches that kept drives alive. We did not have this luxury in 2016.

I think Cam didn't checkdown much simply due to the fact he didn't have much checkdown options to begin with. Stewart's a damn good runningback, but he showed rust with his receiving skills last year. Tolbert is just lol. Fozzy doesn't inspire confidence either, even though he's supposed to be that 3rd down back.

I think Cam Newton's better than what the perception is of his 2016 season. What I see is a mess of an offense trying to play in the NFL. Cam's accuracy is fine, but his reads need to be less "force feed Olsen and Kelvin Benjamin." Sure, his other WRs sucked, but that doesn't mean he should ignore them.

On our rookies

Yes, it's always important to understand you're evaluating rookies transitioning to the NFL, but you always have to look for those fundamental tools that make past rookies successful in the NFL.

When I watch McCaffrey, I see a lot of that. He's an intelligent player who reads the defense and o-line and determines his course from there. He waits for his o-line to develop - very much like Le'Veon Bell - and runs from there. His running style is comparable to LeSean McCoy, and his overall attributes are close to Brian Westbrook. 

Now, that doesn't mean he'll be on any of their levels right off the gate. That's why they're comparisons rather than absolutes. But he shows the fundamentals of being a good back, even as a rookie. His route running was crisp and fluid, which usually means he could replicate some of that in the pros. He has a good grasp of the fundamentals, and a lot to build on.

Curtis Samuel is a fast guy who's dangerous in space. His speed's deadly and he will outrun defenders. Against some of college's best corners, he shined and didn't let down. There's a lot to be optimistic from his play.

Now to criticize, he body catches too often. His 3.2% drop rate easily made him OSU's most reliable receiver, but that doesn't mean he could work on a few things. Drops are not an issue, but proper catching form may haunt him in the future.

As far as everyone else, we'll see. Moton's a good tackle, but I wonder if he'll actually beat out Daryl Williams, who I already think is an upgrade over Mike Remmers. Daeshon Hall's raw, but he's coachable and learning behind vets should help. Corn Elder is a lot better than advertised. His tape shows a solid corner who can play outside just fine if necessary. Him and Munnerlyn will make fine nickels.

On Coaching

Going back to Peter King's podcast, he mentions how he heard Shula wanted McCaffrey the whole time on draft night. I've read articles in the past on Shula and the Panthers planning to use guys like Samuel and McCaffrey months prior to the draft. 

While this may be blind optimism, I do think we will see a huge change in offensive playcalling and philosophy. Shula gets a lot of flack for playcalling - and rightfully so - but his run designs from 2015 were some of the best in the league. When it comes to design, Shula's able to build it. It's his in-game playcalling that's an issue.

I'll have to wait and see what happens, but I feel that Shula understands this is make-or-break for him, and will strive to ensure we're successful.

On Our Wide-Receivers

I'm more comfortable than I was in years past. As much as we used Ginn in the past, he's still getting old and slower. He's always going to have those Ginn hands. I think Curtis Samuel should be able to replicate that role in a way and be better at it. Although I don't think his deep speed will be on the same level as Ginn, his quickness and cuts are what really give him that shot.

As I already said, we didn't have our slot receiver last year. This year, we have Samuel, McCaffrey, and Shepard. All three are reliable, get separation over the middle, and can move the chains. It's going to be a lot of fun to see how the Panthers do that.

I've dropped my expectations for Charles Johnson as time went on. I wouldn't be surprised to see him cut if he remains injured. He was used as insurance in the case we got no one in the draft, but now we got some. He needs to show in training camp he's better than he was in 2016, otherwise he's going to be looking for a job.

Russell Shepard is a guy I love the more I watch him. He's a big upgrade over Philly Brown with a lot of potential. Crisp route running and gets open. He could be our starting slot guy alongside Curtis Samuel, and I wouldn't complain. At the least, he'll be a move the chains guy who's going to dominate Special Teams.

Kelvin Benjamin. I hope he reaches that level of being a WR1, but I don't know if I want to see that with our new offense. He's a big possession guy who needs to play bigger. I don't want him to hog targets anymore, and he needs to show more effort. I get his ACL was injured in 2016, but he needs to step it up. I believe he will.

Devin Funchess has a lot of potential. At his young age, he's already getting a lot. The issue is he doesn't get that many looks, and doesn't do much with the opportunities he was given. His route running and slants are deadly, but he needs to be more reliable and show that on the field.

There's a lot of potential with this group. Ironically, our perceived WR1 and WR2 are the ones I'm most concerned about. I think this is capable of being a solid group, but it could be just another middle of the pack group. At the least, I think Cam's in a better situation than in 2016.

On our potential

We have a lot of potential. There's a lot of reason to be excited. We could be one of the first offenses to utilize one of the deadliest and deepest option football styles the NFL's just never seen before. Rayzor brought up a good point before when talking of our offensive core:

1. dual threat QB/RB cam
2. dual threat RB/WR mccaffery
3. dual threat WR/RB samuel
4. dual threat TE/WR olsen
5. giant WR KB
6. powerback stewart

These guys are going to be our main focus. We can create so much confusion and mayhem with how many options we can employ. Kelvin Benjamin's going to be that big threat that corners have to account for, so put him somewhere on the field and he's a threat. Olsen's a threat as well and always has been. Our dual threat runningbacks in McCaffrey and Samuel let us line them up in so many ways, and Cam and Stewart still exist as power run threats.

 

I'll just let you soak that in yourself. We have more options and ways to hit defenses than any other team in the NFL with these hybrid players. I like our potential.

What I want to see happen in 2016

I don't want to see Kelvin Benjamin as a WR1. I want to see him used as a big body possession receiver that gets the yards he needs to when he needs to and a deadly red-zone threat. He can't separate and likely never will, but he can use his body to bully defenders and grab the ball. I want him to be more big next year.

Cam Newton needs to spread the ball around when the play calls for it. He needs to go through his progressions and give each of his receivers a chance. No more force feeding Olsen and Kelvin Benjamin; let all your weapons shine.

I want to see Funchess improve and start showing the talent he has inside of him. I feel he'd be a better WR1, but he needs to be more consistent. His flashes show elite talent, but he needs to do that more. Let Cam feel comfortable and show you can use that route-running you show on the practice field on game day.

I want to see Samuel and McCaffrey interchanged as run threat options alongside Stewart and Newton. This year, we no longer have to rely on Cam as our primary other runner, and let these three runners do their job. I still want Newton to keep his running threat alive, but I don't want it to happen often. 

I want to see our offense use our option players to the max. We have the capability of being the most complex and deadly offense in the league just based on how many hybrid players we have. I want Shula to figure it out and put it together.

This could be our best offense ever under Cam. We have that potential. It's up to the players and coaches to make it all work out.

 

 

 

 

[j2sgam]

18 hours ago, Jangler said:

week one my man,,,

I could start a thread about cool rock'n'roll band names? I gotta good one...

 

Social Blisters

Mudd Dick & Teh Pantysniffers....  Yup.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

theres a whole lotta tl;dr in this here thread....

[Paa Langfart]

That uniform just does not go with that color helmet.

[joeyxfresco]

3 hours ago, Paa Langfart said:

That uniform just does not go with that color helmet.

I think it's perfect. You need some contrast and the black facmask ties it all together