Mini Camp Observations Day 1

[LinvilleGorge]

10 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

LOL

Yeah, that was a head scratching comment. Fozzy's abilities as a receiver out of the backfield is the primary reason why he's still collecting NFL paychecks. He actually had significantly more pass targets than rushing attempts for the Browns in 2013. 28 rush attempts vs. 36 passing targets. His head coach? Chud. The same OC that actually featured Stew as a receiver. He accounted for the majority of our receiving out of the backfield last year.

[L-TownCat]

5 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

70% career catch rate and it was 77% the one season that we actually made a real effort to feature him as a receiver.

Faulk's was 76% and Foster's was 72%.

Faulk is by far the best receiving RB that ive seen in my lifetime.

My main point is that even tho he can do it, it's not where he is the most effective.  He's a pro, one of the best backs in team history as far as I'm concerned.  If he was a truly good pass catching RB we wouldn't have drafted CMC/Samuel.  

 

Please note: I am not bashing Stew.  In anyway shape or form.

[LinvilleGorge]

12 minutes ago, L-TownCat said:

My main point is that even tho he can do it, it's not where he is the most effective.  He's a pro, one of the best backs in team history as far as I'm concerned.  If he was a truly good pass catching RB we wouldn't have drafted CMC/Samuel.  

 

Please note: I am not bashing Stew.  In anyway shape or form.

I think it's more that we simply didn't throw to RBs much at all. We threw to RBs 70 times last year out of 563 attempts. That's 12.4% of our passes going to a RB/FB.

Compre that to the Falcons. They threw to their backs 117 times out of 527 attempts. That's 21.8% of attempts to a RB/FB.

That's a massive discrepancy.

A lot of people knock Cam's accuracy and it can he admittedly sporadic at times, but the guy is consistently throwing the toughest passes that an NFL QB has to throw. He's consistently throwing down the field to blanketed receivers.

[Saca312]

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, that was a head scratching comment. Fozzy's abilities as a receiver out of the backfield is the primary reason why he's still collecting NFL paychecks. He actually had significantly more pass targets than rushing attempts for the Browns in 2013. 28 rush attempts vs. 36 passing targets. His head coach? Chud. The same OC that actually featured Stew as a receiver. He accounted for the majority of our receiving out of the backfield last year.

Well when given his few chances, Fozzy wasn't completely reliable. His play throughout the season when given the chance as a third down back was all over the place. You'd see him not make plays when he should've too often for the role he was in.

As a pass protector, well you might as well put a turnstile there because he ain't cutting it.

Another argument for why Cam didn't check down as much; he simply didn't trust his checkdown options.

I don't even think his roster position is as safe as everyone believes. He might make it due to Rivera's love for vets, but we have Samuel and McCaffrey who are superior than Fozzy in that role.

I liked Fozzy before. He's just an average scatback who did things right sometimes. But with the increase in better talent and more reliable options, he may not be as safe as some assume.

[L-TownCat]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I think it's more that we simply didn't throw to RBs much at all. We threw to RBs 70 times last year out of 563 attempts. That's 12.4% of our passes going to a RB/FB.

Compre that to the Falcons. They threw to their backs 117 times out of 527 attempts. That's 21.8% of attempts to a RB/FB.

That's a massive discrepancy.

A lot of people knock Cam's accuracy and it can he admittedly sporadic at times, but the guy is consistently throwing the toughest passes that an NFL QB has to throw. He's consistently throwing down the field to blanketed receivers.

Agreed on the Cam issue.  It has to be a mix between Cams weakness in the short game, pass blocking, and our backs not being a consistently reliable option underneath.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, Saca312 said:

Well when given his few chances, Fozzy wasn't completely reliable. His play throughout the season when given the chance as a third down back was all over the place. You'd see him not make plays when he should've too often for the role he was in.

As a pass protector, well you might as well put a turnstile there because he ain't cutting it.

Another argument for why Cam didn't check down as much; he simply didn't trust his checkdown options.

I don't even think his roster position is as safe as everyone believes. He might make it due to Rivera's love for vets, but we have Samuel and McCaffrey who are superior than Fozzy in that role.

I liked Fozzy before. He's just an average scatback who did things right sometimes. But with the increase in better talent and more reliable options, he may not be as safe as some assume.

He caught 25 of 33 pass targets. That's almost 76% of his targets. That's really damn good by any measure.

Blocking isn't receiving and no one will argue that Fozzy is a great blocker.

With CMC and Samuel on board now, I won't be shocked if Fozzy doesn't make the roster but he's a pretty damn good receiving RB it's just that he's pretty damn mediocre at everything else.

[csx]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

He caught 25 of 33 pass targets. That's almost 76% of his targets. That's really damn good by any measure.

Blocking isn't receiving and no one will argue that Fozzy is a great blocker.

With CMC and Samuel on board now, I won't be shocked if Fozzy doesn't make the roster but he's a pretty damn good receiving RB it's just that he's pretty damn mediocre at everything else.

Yeah, when you look at the numbers it make you wonder. That poster tends to find a highlight or lowlight to support something without looking a the actual statistics. Anyone looks good or bad viewed through the lens of one or two cherry picked plays

[LinvilleGorge]

18 minutes ago, csx said:

Yeah, when you look at the numbers it make you wonder. That poster tends to find a highlight or lowlight to support something without looking a the actual statistics. Anyone looks good or bad viewed through the lens of one or two cherry picked plays

Yep, even great players will have some shitty plays and even shitty players will make some pretty damn great plays from time to time. I mean, you would've thought David Tyree was an all-time great WR if the only play you ever saw was that mega-clutch "helmet catch" in the Super Bowl.

[GoobyPls]

16 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm not saying that Stew is Marshall Faulk when it comes to receiving. All I'm saying is that he performed very well in that department during the lone season that we made an effort to feature him as a receiver.

Peterson has received 40+ targets in five seasons, Stew only one. Peterson averages 33.5 targets per season, Stew 24.5. That's over 35% more targets per season,so it's a little unfair to pick an arbitrary number like 200 receiving yards to use as a viable measuring stick to compare the two.

Maybe Peterson got more targets cause he's a better receiving back. And since your using Chud as an excuse, I can mention the fact Peterson best receiving season was with Favre, the lone legit QB he has ever had.

DVOA had Stewart ranked as the worst receiving back in the NFL, I can't count how many times I saw Stewart drop a flats pass  

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, GoobyPls said:

Maybe Peterson got more targets cause he's a better receiving back. And since your using Chud as an excuse, I can mention the fact Peterson best receiving season was with Favre, the lone legit QB he has ever had.

DVOA had Stewart ranked as the worst receiving back in the NFL, I can't count how many times I saw Stewart drop a flats pass  

A lot of Panthers fans don't want to accept it for some reason, but Adrian Peterson is quite simply a better football player than Stew, period. Since we rarely use Stew as a RB, DVOA is going to be relatively worthless given the small sample size.

The bottom line is that in one season we made a concerted effort to utilize Stew as a receiver and he had almost 50 catches for over 400 yards while catching over 75% of his opportunities. That cannot be refuted because it's fact.

[Saca312]

10 hours ago, csx said:

Yeah, when you look at the numbers it make you wonder. That poster tends to find a highlight or lowlight to support something without looking a the actual statistics. Anyone looks good or bad viewed through the lens of one or two cherry picked plays

I'm of the opinion Fozzy is mediocre and put a lid on Cam's ability to check down because of the fact he wasn't reliable, but you do you.

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

I'm of the opinion Fozzy is mediocre and put a lid on Cam's ability to check down because of the fact he wasn't reliable, but you do you.

Off of what are you basing his unreliability? That one gif? The stats don't support your argument.

[Hogmolliesmaht]

11 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

I'm of the opinion Fozzy is mediocre and put a lid on Cam's ability to check down because of the fact he wasn't reliable, but you do you.

Where do you get this crap? Fozzy's main function is to catch the ball out of the backfield. That's why he's here in the first place. It's true that he didn't have a great season, but who on the offense did? Even Cam had a down year and you think he walks on water.

[GoobyPls]

52 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

A lot of Panthers fans don't want to accept it for some reason, but Adrian Peterson is quite simply a better football player than Stew, period. Since we rarely use Stew as a RB, DVOA is going to be relatively worthless given the small sample size.

The bottom line is that in one season we made a concerted effort to utilize Stew as a receiver and he had almost 50 catches for over 400 yards while catching over 75% of his opportunities. That cannot be refuted because it's fact.

Dvoa I think measures its ranking by snaps. I don't need dvoa to see Stewart struggles mighty to catch the ball in the flats.

 

Meh one year doesn't make it the standard. With volume you can make any RB stats look somewhat decent.