Coaching is why Jarrett shows bust

[SMACKDAB]

Admittedly Moore played better but look at the numbers. In the first 2 games with Jake, Smitty had 4 TDS, and 281 yards for a 18 yards per reception. He averaged 140 yards and 2 TDs per game. With Moore he had 250 yards and 1TD for a average per reception of 11.5 in 3 games which averaged out to 83 yards and 1/3 of a TD per game.

Not even close if you look beyond the surface.

Once again you are making yourself look dumber and dumber. Using stats from a backup QB, and comparing them to the stater.

You are ALWAYS the first to make excuses for backups as well, but now let's throw Moore under the bus because Smitty wasn't as productive with Moore as he was with Jake.

You are ******* embarrassing yourself man.

WOW! You just won't quit. :seeya:

[monstercat]

Delhomme put up some of his best numbers in 04 when Smith got hurt in the first game of the season, and he played well in the first two games without Smith last year, so it is a myth that he has to have Smith to succeed. In fact, I'm not so sure that Jake is not actually a better QB without Smith, because he doesn't force as many throws when Smith is out.

[panthers55]

He gives Smith all the credit because he knows he would be nothing without him. Jake doesnt have the ability to make marginal receivers good like Brady or the Mannings or any of the elite QBs do. Jake needs great wrs to bail him out because he is so inconsistent and marginal.

Moose has only had one 1000 yard season under Fox. He dropped from being an elite #1 to a solid #2 since Fox arrived. If Fox's system was so great then he would have been able to develop other recievers by now. Fox's system has only been successful because he inherited two all pro receivers. Im sure I could coach the team and get the same results out of those two. Smith and Moose in his prime would be successful under most HC's. Lovie Smith is a pretty damn good coach last time I checked. He just had no QBs until now.

I guess I wouldn't expect anything else from a hater. And Jake has never had a great reciever outside of Smith. Moose has been good but not great. He plays as much for his blocking as his receiving. His difficulty holding onto the ball are well documented.

As for developing other receivers, you can't develop guys unless you have talent. You guys talk out of both sides of your mouth. You say it is Fox's fault that we haven't developed receivers as if we have had guys who were talented who he has held back. Then you say that he hasn't drafted any guys worth a darn. You only get to go one direction or the other. If our talent was poor then he couldn't develop what he didn't have. If our talent was so great and he held them back, then were are these receivers once they left us?

As for the draft, we have discussed the Softi versus Gregory drafts. No one is totally at fault or blameless in this situation. Why not try and see things in a less extreme all or nothing fashion.

[panthers55]

the start Jake and Smith got of to in 07 is not the norm that duo and not the best to use for a legit comparison. When a remotely functional QB got into the game the last 3 weeks...Smith was back to being Smith.

Who knows what was going to happen in 2007. I expect that Smitty probably wouldn't keep up that pace which would ended up with 2000 yards, 120 catches, and 24 TDs. Still they were putting up fantastic numbers which no one could duplicate. Moore had really one good game with him, the other 2 were nothing special.

Seriously, it hard to understand after all these years why this is even debated. They have said over and over that they need each other and make each other better. If you guys weren't such haters you would see it as well.

[panthers55]

Delhomme put up some of his best numbers in 04 when Smith got hurt in the first game of the season, and he played well in the first two games without Smith last year, so it is a myth that he has to have Smith to succeed. In fact, I'm not so sure that Jake is not actually a better QB without Smith, because he doesn't force as many throws when Smith is out.

In some ways I think you are correct. If he didn't believe in Smitty to catch the ball in double or triple coverage, he would hit the underneath route or receiver being singled. Sometimes his confidence in Smitty is detrimental.

[Gman was right]

I guess I wouldn't expect anything else from a hater. And Jake has never had a great reciever outside of Smith. Moose has been good but not great. He plays as much for his blocking as his receiving. His difficulty holding onto the ball are well documented.

As for developing other receivers, you can't develop guys unless you have talent. You guys talk out of both sides of your mouth. You say it is Fox's fault that we haven't developed receivers as if we have had guys who were talented who he has held back. Then you say that he hasn't drafted any guys worth a darn. You only get to go one direction or the other. If our talent was poor then he couldn't develop what he didn't have. If our talent was so great and he held them back, then were are these receivers once they left us?

As for the draft, we have discussed the Softi versus Gregory drafts. No one is totally at fault or blameless in this situation. Why not try and see things in a less extreme all or nothing fashion.

See why do you have to be like that? Im having a reasonable discussion and you're calling me a hater because I dont agree with you. If you dont think Jake is marginal then I dont know what else to say. He is marginal plain and simple! Always has been always will be. He has had the luxury of having great recievers to bail him out.

You said that Fox's system is what made Moose and Smith which couldnt be further from the truth. If that was the case then Dwayne jarrett, Keary Colbert, Drew Carter, plus all the numerous free agent wrs like DJ Hackett and Rod Gardener would have excelled in that system. Fox's system isnt even based around the passing game. Moose and Smith complimented his crappy run run run system. They didnt excel because of it.

[Kevin Greene]

In some ways I think you are correct. If he didn't believe in Smitty to catch the ball in double or triple coverage, he would hit the underneath route or receiver being singled. Sometimes his confidence in Smitty is detrimental.

Man, if I'm the HC and Delhomme keeps throwing into double and triple coverage to Smitty, I get that fixed ASAP. Or else.

[Gman was right]

Delhomme put up some of his best numbers in 04 when Smith got hurt in the first game of the season, and he played well in the first two games without Smith last year, so it is a myth that he has to have Smith to succeed. In fact, I'm not so sure that Jake is not actually a better QB without Smith, because he doesn't force as many throws when Smith is out.

Do you seriously beleive that BS? You're telling me this offense would be better without Smith than with him? Really? As previously stated Jake has a losing record without smith in the lineup.

[panthers55]

See why do you have to be like that? Im having a reasonable discussion and you're calling me a hater because I dont agree with you. If you dont think Jake is marginal then I dont know what else to say. He is marginal plain and simple! Always has been always will be. He has had the luxury of having great recievers to bail him out.

You said that Fox's system is what made Moose and Smith which couldnt be further from the truth. If that was the case then Dwayne jarrett, Keary Colbert, Drew Carter, plus all the numerous free agent wrs like DJ Hackett and Rod Gardener would have excelled in that system. Fox's system isnt even based around the passing game. Moose and Smith complimented his crappy run run run system. They didnt excel because of it.

You are a hater but you are also correct that this is a reasonable discussion without the usual personal attacks. Which is actually why I am still in it going back and forth. I am impressed with your ability to actually discuss the facts without the usual extreme rants or attacks.

As for Jake being marginal, I would agree with you this year. In fact marginal may be kind. And last year he was pretty inconsistent which I chalked up to post surgery issues and the year layoff. It doesn't take away from what he has done in the past but it surely doesn't give him a pass to continue to play inconsistently.

As for our system, I don't know if Smitty would be more productive in a system like Arizona or New Orleans. Partly because he would have to share catches with several other guys. He would get his yards but may not be for example the primary receiver. He might be a 3rd receiver in Arizona and a 2nd in New Orleans. Part of the reason he succeeds here is that the offense is built around him.

As for why those other guys haven't done great, we really are a 2 receiver offense with 2 TEs. We have used guys like Proehl when we had them but that was really on third down and when we had no TEs. Our offense is built for Moose and Smitty to succeed. We need guys who can catch and block and both of them do that well. Neither Moore and Jarrett are anything special but we will keep one or both of them given Moose won't be here much longer.

[panthers55]

Do you seriously beleive that BS? You're telling me this offense would be better without Smith than with him? Really? As previously stated Jake has a losing record without smith in the lineup.

Actually the last time we didn't have Smitty but had everyone else (unlike 2004) we went 2-0 in 2008.

Just sayin..............

[panthers55]

Man, if I'm the HC and Delhomme keeps throwing into double and triple coverage to Smitty, I get that fixed ASAP. Or else.

Doesn't seem that hard to figure out and throw to the single-covered guy or the running back on the checkdown.

[Gman was right]

You are a hater but you are also correct that this is a reasonable discussion without the usual personal attacks. Which is actually why I am still in it going back and forth. I am impressed with your ability to actually discuss the facts without the usual extreme rants or attacks.

As for Jake being marginal, I would agree with you this year. In fact marginal may be kind. And last year he was pretty inconsistent which I chalked up to post surgery issues and the year layoff. It doesn't take away from what he has done in the past but it surely doesn't give him a pass to continue to play inconsistently.

As for our system, I don't know if Smitty would be more productive in a system like Arizona or New Orleans. Partly because he would have to share catches with several other guys. He would get his yards but may not be for example the primary receiver. He might be a 3rd receiver in Arizona and a 2nd in New Orleans. Part of the reason he succeeds here is that the offense is built around him.

As for why those other guys haven't done great, we really are a 2 receiver offense with 2 TEs. We have used guys like Proehl when we had them but that was really on third down and when we had no TEs. Our offense is built for Moose and Smitty to succeed. We need guys who can catch and block and both of them do that well. Neither Moore and Jarrett are anything special but we will keep one or both of them given Moose won't be here much longer.

Thanks. And you're a John Fox slurper but at least you can have a reasonable discussion.

Smitty would be a #2 in Arizona only because they already have the best WR in the league in Fitgerald. Anywhere else he would be a #1. He sure as hell wouldnt be a #3 on anyones team. You would have to be crazy if you beleive that.

Fox has proven that he cannot develop receivers through the draft. We definitely will have to explore that through free agency next year. When defenses take Smith away thats when Jake makes all of his bone headed decisions. They need a big time #2 to give Jake any kind of chance.

[Gman was right]

Actually the last time we didn't have Smitty but had everyone else (unlike 2004) we went 2-0 in 2008.

Just sayin..............

We were 0-2 in 2006 and 7-8 in 2004 without him.

We won the chicago game last year because of our defense and our running game. SD was a shocker!

[panthers55]

Thanks. And you're a John Fox slurper but at least you can have a reasonable discussion.

Smitty would be a #2 in Arizona only because they already have the best WR in the league in Fitgerald. Anywhere else he would be a #1. He sure as hell wouldnt be a #3 on anyones team. You would have to be crazy if you beleive that.

Fox has proven that he cannot develop receivers through the draft. We definitely will have to explore that through free agency next year. When defenses take Smith away thats when Jake makes all of his bone headed decisions. They need a big time #2 to give Jake any kind of chance.

He might be behind both Fitzgerald and Anquin Bolton in Arizona as Bolton is a run with the ball kind of receiver who is bigger and as fast as Smith. In New Orleans he could easily be behind Colston although Brees seems to get everyone involved.

Is it that the Panthers can't draft guys who can make it in the NFL or are we drafting good talent that Fox can't develop?? Honestly I think we have not have very good talent. And I would agree that we definitely need a good number 2.

Damn, we might even agree on something?????