Honest opinions please is this team really talented?

[Blitz]

I repeatedly get fustrated with the "this team has the talent" quotes from fans and media alike. I believe as a fan base we have crossed the line of no return with John Fox. I truely believe he is a good coach, when he has the talent and depth. To me Hurney is fully responsible for the current perdicament we find ourselves in. Again I believe the negativity is not something fox can over come at this point without a long run through the playoffs. With all that said I would really like to know the honest O of Carolina Huddle Masses. Possible Im just negative after pep, jake and start of the season scenarios so I will pose the question to the fans on the huddle. Please be honest. Is this team talented?

I was thinking to myself what makes a team talented, would the individual player have to be wanted by other teams? Would they start over the majority of players at there positions on other teams. What exactly makes a player talented?

For my purposes, just asked myself would this player start for another team, if so what percentage of other teams.

QB No = Jake - Throw the last 8 games out I believe he wouild not be coveted by any other team and completely doubt he woiuld be anything other than a mop up duty qb on any other team in the nfl. Feely was on the street for a reason. Moore-truely doubt he is anything more than a thrid stringer on any other roster.

RB Yes = DWill and Stewart I believe would start on 20 to 25 other teams. Goodson appears to have something.

FB Maybe = Fiammetta you could argue has tools. wheter that is Kobalts, husky craftsman or ohio forge is unknown. Hoover (fav) is up there in years and just by age would have to be considered on the decline.

WR No = Aside from Smith (who is getting up there in age, but is talented) I do not believe Moose (possibly would be a slot guy on a few other rosters), Moore (wouldnt make 20% of other teams rosters) Jarrett (maybe would have had a shot if on another team earlier in his career) would be on any other teams active roster.

LT Yes = Gross I do believe he is talented, actually moreso believe he is servicable for our offense do not believe he would be good fit for a majority of passing offenses. For the sake yes he would start on other teams.

LG Marginal = Wharton. I struggled with this one but I believe the move from tackle was to hide his short commings. Possible he plays for a third of the league, maybe; but I doubt it. Makinzeeeeeeeee (sp) I believe would make many rosters as a backup and project. No true knock out starters in this line up to me.

C Marginal = Khali Though he would possibly start for a few teams just based on lack of Centers in the league I believe his size would hold many a teams back. I do not believe he would replace more than 30% of other teams centers.

RG possible. Believe we have a servicable starter and Robinson could prove to be a solid future starter, however I doubt either starts for many other teams.

RT Yes = Otah Young, prototype has a very bright future and would start for a majority of other teams somewhere.

TE No = There is not a te on our squad that starts for another team in my oppin. Possible King would see time in two te sets for blocking purposes. They also appear to be terrible in special teams which does not bode well.

RE Marginal = Brayton maybe a hand full of teams he would play for as a starter. Hes slow though he makes up for it in bunches in effort. Wish he has peps skill set. Johnson I believe has ability though he is not starting for any other team.

DT No = Lewis would possibly get a spot with someone as a number 2 but hes not beating out many teams roster spots. The rest are all fooder who no one else already wanted.

LE Yes = Peppers name alone he would start for many teams, however I heard a point made today by Brenston Buckner or Michael Lambardi (dont remember which) belive it was Lambardi, that rang true more than any statement I have ever heard about pep he is not a presure end, meaning he does not constantly provide pressure on the QB, he lucks into sacks by eventually getting a player based on skill sets. To me this is a sign he would not be as covetted as many may believe. However in the end I believe he would play in many places. Brown Though he does not have the same skill sets as pep he is much the same and nothing more than a situational pass rusher.

LOLB Yes = Davis starts for many many many teams his strenght and awareness is catching up with his speed. PTPer.

MLB Yes = Beason same as above.

Rest of LBs Anderson, Diggs, Connor etc are not starting for any other team in the nfl IMO.

LCB Yes GGamble= I believe he would start for just about every team in the nfl. He may not be the smartest cookie but he sure as hell is talented. Regradless of what you think if you look back he has produced when there was a rush. No corner can cover under the circumstances he is put in this year.

RCB Marginal. Marshall. I believe he has some tools, really think he needed another year as a nickle. Which is where I think he would end up on many other teams.

Rest CB Marginal at best = Captain shows he may have a future. Martin may have a future though doubtfull, the rest are just cheap and fill the roster.

FS No = Godfrey maybe talented, but he looks lost at times and seems to have some large shortcommings to date. Possible it all comes togather for him, but it does not appear to be.

SS Yes = Harris though his physical tools are minimal he makes up in run support, effort and hit power. I believe he would have a shot on more than a few teams.

Rest S No= Teal is nothing more than cheap roster filler.

Special teams have been terrible. It appears every team has the ball to atleast the 15 before any panther player comes into the tv screen. Average field position is over the 30. Punt teams are pathetic. Long snapper struggles.

So based on original question by my breakdown we have 7 positions other teams would covet out of 22. Terrible depth, shown through special teams. And many positions where players would not make other rosters. So are we really talented?

[OneBadassCat]

I think Rosario and Conner could start for other teams. Wharton sure as hell would to. Kalil will get back to pro bowl form soon.

[Blitz]

I believe that maybe a strecth, but given your opinion Ill go with it. Does that put the team over the top and make them talented, or are they talented in your opin?

[scpanther22]

I repeatedly get fustrated with the "this team has the talent" quotes from fans and media alike. I believe as a fan base we have crossed the line of no return with John Fox. I truely believe he is a good coach, when he has the talent and depth. To me Hurney is fully responsible for the current perdicament we find ourselves in. Again I believe the negativity is not something fox can over come at this point without a long run through the playoffs. With all that said I would really like to know the honest O of Carolina Huddle Masses. Possible Im just negative after pep, jake and start of the season scenarios so I will pose the question to the fans on the huddle. Please be honest. Is this team talented?

I was thinking to myself what makes a team talented, would the individual player have to be wanted by other teams? Would they start over the majority of players at there positions on other teams. What exactly makes a player talented?

For my purposes, just asked myself would this player start for another team, if so what percentage of other teams.

QB No = Jake - Throw the last 8 games out I believe he wouild not be coveted by any other team and completely doubt he woiuld be anything other than a mop up duty qb on any other team in the nfl. Feely was on the street for a reason. Moore-truely doubt he is anything more than a thrid stringer on any other roster.

RB Yes = DWill and Stewart I believe would start on 20 to 25 other teams. Goodson appears to have something.

FB Maybe = Fiammetta you could argue has tools. wheter that is Kobalts, husky craftsman or ohio forge is unknown. Hoover (fav) is up there in years and just by age would have to be considered on the decline.

WR No = Aside from Smith (who is getting up there in age, but is talented) I do not believe Moose (possibly would be a slot guy on a few other rosters), Moore (wouldnt make 20% of other teams rosters) Jarrett (maybe would have had a shot if on another team earlier in his career) would be on any other teams active roster.

LT Yes = Gross I do believe he is talented, actually moreso believe he is servicable for our offense do not believe he would be good fit for a majority of passing offenses. For the sake yes he would start on other teams.

LG Marginal = Wharton. I struggled with this one but I believe the move from tackle was to hide his short commings. Possible he plays for a third of the league, maybe; but I doubt it. Makinzeeeeeeeee (sp) I believe would make many rosters as a backup and project. No true knock out starters in this line up to me.

C Marginal = Khali Though he would possibly start for a few teams just based on lack of Centers in the league I believe his size would hold many a teams back. I do not believe he would replace more than 30% of other teams centers.

RG possible. Believe we have a servicable starter and Robinson could prove to be a solid future starter, however I doubt either starts for many other teams.

RT Yes = Otah Young, prototype has a very bright future and would start for a majority of other teams somewhere.

TE No = There is not a te on our squad that starts for another team in my oppin. Possible King would see time in two te sets for blocking purposes. They also appear to be terrible in special teams which does not bode well.

RE Marginal = Brayton maybe a hand full of teams he would play for as a starter. Hes slow though he makes up for it in bunches in effort. Wish he has peps skill set. Johnson I believe has ability though he is not starting for any other team.

DT No = Lewis would possibly get a spot with someone as a number 2 but hes not beating out many teams roster spots. The rest are all fooder who no one else already wanted.

LE Yes = Peppers name alone he would start for many teams, however I heard a point made today by Brenston Buckner or Michael Lambardi (dont remember which) belive it was Lambardi, that rang true more than any statement I have ever heard about pep he is not a presure end, meaning he does not constantly provide pressure on the QB, he lucks into sacks by eventually getting a player based on skill sets. To me this is a sign he would not be as covetted as many may believe. However in the end I believe he would play in many places. Brown Though he does not have the same skill sets as pep he is much the same and nothing more than a situational pass rusher.

LOLB Yes = Davis starts for many many many teams his strenght and awareness is catching up with his speed. PTPer.

MLB Yes = Beason same as above.

Rest of LBs Anderson, Diggs, Connor etc are not starting for any other team in the nfl IMO.

LCB Yes GGamble= I believe he would start for just about every team in the nfl. He may not be the smartest cookie but he sure as hell is talented. Regradless of what you think if you look back he has produced when there was a rush. No corner can cover under the circumstances he is put in this year.

RCB Marginal. Marshall. I believe he has some tools, really think he needed another year as a nickle. Which is where I think he would end up on many other teams.

Rest CB Marginal at best = Captain shows he may have a future. Martin may have a future though doubtfull, the rest are just cheap and fill the roster.

FS No = Godfrey maybe talented, but he looks lost at times and seems to have some large shortcommings to date. Possible it all comes togather for him, but it does not appear to be.

SS Yes = Harris though his physical tools are minimal he makes up in run support, effort and hit power. I believe he would have a shot on more than a few teams.

Rest S No= Teal is nothing more than cheap roster filler.

Special teams have been terrible. It appears every team has the ball to atleast the 15 before any panther player comes into the tv screen. Average field position is over the 30. Punt teams are pathetic. Long snapper struggles.

So based on original question by my breakdown we have 7 positions other teams would covet out of 22. Terrible depth, shown through special teams. And many positions where players would not make other rosters. So are we really talented?

Why.This team does have the talent...but IMO Charles johnson could start for some teams..still dont know why he is not here.Connor could start for a team

[fredlane34]

this same team was 12-4,not by accident,but cause we have talent

[OneBadassCat]

I believe that maybe a strecth, but given your opinion Ill go with it. Does that put the team over the top and make them talented, or are they talented in your opin?

I believe we have a talented team. More so than others. We have the players to be a damn good offense we just aren't utilizing them in the right ways. We are lacking at WR, but guys like Rosario and Goodson can make up for that but we are not getting them the ball.

We have some guys that could be good DTs some day but I would say we are not talented there. The ones that are, are on IR or PS. We could use a cornerstone safety. CB has alot of potential. Munnerlyn will start for us someday I believe. Marshall hasn't quite reached the top yet I'm not sure if he ever will.

We do not have a talented starting QB right now. Which partly makes the whole offense look bad.

[KillerKat]

Yes we're talented minus a few areas. Jake, who starts in the most important position of a football team, is the least talented. What also hinders a talented team greatly is coaching.

[Blitz]

I dig what all of you have said, maybe this is more medicine for me than anything.

But I got to tell you, I just dont see the talent top to bottom. Im not talking world beaters either dont get me wrong. It does take a special type of individual to play special teams, but good depth routinely shows up in good special teams play. Something we have yet to see. Believe we can become overcome by the big names and immediately think the team is talented. IE smith dwill stewart and at the same time be blinded by Connor making alot of tackles while missing the fact that they are all 5+ yards down the field. I guess we are more talented than Tampa, Rams, Raiders, Seahawks, Phins, Chiefs, broncos.............. So were not as bad as the start of the season has lead me to think.

[pstall]

The can they start for another team may not be the way to frame this.

Reason is each team builds specific to their formula/style/philosophy.

Just like in college hoops. Some teams build well for playing well at the college level, but it doesn't translate at the next level.

But for what they want to do, it works well(Duke anyone?)

I think the issue does the scheme's, to use a phrase from Keyshawn, MATCH UP, with the talent they have.

I say no.

The coaching staff is simply not putting many players in a postion to win.

The Arizona meltdown. They get behind and panic. That panic transfers to Jake.

Instead of either trying to build his confidence with screens etc, they keep throwing on 1st and the Cards saw each play coming a mile away.

That lack of setting up their key players to win has carried over.

There are some serious trust issues from what I see. Maybe the coaches and the players need to go on a ropes course over the bye I dunno.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

Holy sh*t that's way too much to read.

[CatMan72]

Not to start another Peppers war, but I don't think you "luck into" 70 sacks over 7 seasons.

[unicar15]

- Top 5 Offensive line

- Top 3 Running Back

- Top 5 Wide Receiver (The only receiver I'd put in the same category as Steve is Andre Johnson)

- Top 3 MLB (Beason, Ray Lewis, Willis...3 best LBs in the league)

- Very good OLB (Thomas Davis)

- Chris Gamble is a good corner...there is a reason he is never on TV.

A lot of teams would be pretty happy with the amount of talent we have. I'd say that overall we have a team as talented as the NY Giants and a MORE talented team than the NY Jets. Yet...they are both 3-0. That falls on coaching and QB play...because its overly apparent that we lack talent at those positions.

[panther4life]

I repeatedly get fustrated with the "this team has the talent" quotes from fans and media alike. I believe as a fan base we have crossed the line of no return with John Fox. I truely believe he is a good coach, when he has the talent and depth. To me Hurney is fully responsible for the current perdicament we find ourselves in. Again I believe the negativity is not something fox can over come at this point without a long run through the playoffs. With all that said I would really like to know the honest O of Carolina Huddle Masses. Possible Im just negative after pep, jake and start of the season scenarios so I will pose the question to the fans on the huddle. Please be honest. Is this team talented?

I was thinking to myself what makes a team talented, would the individual player have to be wanted by other teams? Would they start over the majority of players at there positions on other teams. What exactly makes a player talented?

For my purposes, just asked myself would this player start for another team, if so what percentage of other teams.

QB No = Jake - Throw the last 8 games out I believe he wouild not be coveted by any other team and completely doubt he woiuld be anything other than a mop up duty qb on any other team in the nfl. Feely was on the street for a reason. Moore-truely doubt he is anything more than a thrid stringer on any other roster.

RB Yes = DWill and Stewart I believe would start on 20 to 25 other teams. Goodson appears to have something.

FB Maybe = Fiammetta you could argue has tools. wheter that is Kobalts, husky craftsman or ohio forge is unknown. Hoover (fav) is up there in years and just by age would have to be considered on the decline.

WR No = Aside from Smith (who is getting up there in age, but is talented) I do not believe Moose (possibly would be a slot guy on a few other rosters), Moore (wouldnt make 20% of other teams rosters) Jarrett (maybe would have had a shot if on another team earlier in his career) would be on any other teams active roster.

LT Yes = Gross I do believe he is talented, actually moreso believe he is servicable for our offense do not believe he would be good fit for a majority of passing offenses. For the sake yes he would start on other teams.

LG Marginal = Wharton. I struggled with this one but I believe the move from tackle was to hide his short commings. Possible he plays for a third of the league, maybe; but I doubt it. Makinzeeeeeeeee (sp) I believe would make many rosters as a backup and project. No true knock out starters in this line up to me.

C Marginal = Khali Though he would possibly start for a few teams just based on lack of Centers in the league I believe his size would hold many a teams back. I do not believe he would replace more than 30% of other teams centers.

RG possible. Believe we have a servicable starter and Robinson could prove to be a solid future starter, however I doubt either starts for many other teams.

RT Yes = Otah Young, prototype has a very bright future and would start for a majority of other teams somewhere.

TE No = There is not a te on our squad that starts for another team in my oppin. Possible King would see time in two te sets for blocking purposes. They also appear to be terrible in special teams which does not bode well.

RE Marginal = Brayton maybe a hand full of teams he would play for as a starter. Hes slow though he makes up for it in bunches in effort. Wish he has peps skill set. Johnson I believe has ability though he is not starting for any other team.

DT No = Lewis would possibly get a spot with someone as a number 2 but hes not beating out many teams roster spots. The rest are all fooder who no one else already wanted.

LE Yes = Peppers name alone he would start for many teams, however I heard a point made today by Brenston Buckner or Michael Lambardi (dont remember which) belive it was Lambardi, that rang true more than any statement I have ever heard about pep he is not a presure end, meaning he does not constantly provide pressure on the QB, he lucks into sacks by eventually getting a player based on skill sets. To me this is a sign he would not be as covetted as many may believe. However in the end I believe he would play in many places. Brown Though he does not have the same skill sets as pep he is much the same and nothing more than a situational pass rusher.

LOLB Yes = Davis starts for many many many teams his strenght and awareness is catching up with his speed. PTPer.

MLB Yes = Beason same as above.

Rest of LBs Anderson, Diggs, Connor etc are not starting for any other team in the nfl IMO.

LCB Yes GGamble= I believe he would start for just about every team in the nfl. He may not be the smartest cookie but he sure as hell is talented. Regradless of what you think if you look back he has produced when there was a rush. No corner can cover under the circumstances he is put in this year.

RCB Marginal. Marshall. I believe he has some tools, really think he needed another year as a nickle. Which is where I think he would end up on many other teams.

Rest CB Marginal at best = Captain shows he may have a future. Martin may have a future though doubtfull, the rest are just cheap and fill the roster.

FS No = Godfrey maybe talented, but he looks lost at times and seems to have some large shortcommings to date. Possible it all comes togather for him, but it does not appear to be.

SS Yes = Harris though his physical tools are minimal he makes up in run support, effort and hit power. I believe he would have a shot on more than a few teams.

Rest S No= Teal is nothing more than cheap roster filler.

Special teams have been terrible. It appears every team has the ball to atleast the 15 before any panther player comes into the tv screen. Average field position is over the 30. Punt teams are pathetic. Long snapper struggles.

So based on original question by my breakdown we have 7 positions other teams would covet out of 22. Terrible depth, shown through special teams. And many positions where players would not make other rosters. So are we really talented?

I agree with most of what you said there but i think whartons a better guard than your giving him credit for.

bottom line is going into next year we need a new coaching staff thats carefullly selected, recieving threats to complinent smitty, a rebuilt d-line, and more experienced secondary next year (the answers to part of this problem could potentially already be on the roster)

[PanthersPhan18]

Believe it or not, Dante Rosario would be a starting TE on many other teams out there. He's actuallyone of the best offensive TE's in the game, even though his numbers don't say so.