What to make of Cameron Artis-Payne

[shaqattaq]

23 hours ago, Raskle said:

I'm gonna make some heads explode, but I'm going with... neither making the roster.

 

I can see us going with this:

HB1: Stew

HB2: CMC

HB3/WR: Samuel

FB: Armah / Young (I think we keep Armah myself, so he can learn the system and grow with the other young guys)

WR6: Byrd

 

This would allow us to have a full complement of tailbacks, while freeing up a 6th WR spot that allows us to keep Byrd on the roster, and... you can't coach speed. Neither CAP nor Fozzy are irreplaceable, and we get to keep younger, speedier talent on the team. To me, that's an ideal situation, and I like both guys to be honest. I just think this would be best for us long-term, depending on if CMC is strong enough to carry the load, should Stew go down with another hampering injury.

i actually gave this some thought as well (not sure I'd use that extra spot for Byrd though). My main concern would be if Stew got hurt. Having 2 rookies and Scoot on PS would make me very nervous.

[Darvinsun]

CAP needs more playing time I think last yr they should have been letting him play instead of tolbert. The coaches just don't knoow who to play at times.

[Raskle]

2 hours ago, shaqattaq said:

i actually gave this some thought as well (not sure I'd use that extra spot for Byrd though). My main concern would be if Stew got hurt. Having 2 rookies and Scoot on PS would make me very nervous.

Yeah, that was a concern of mine as well. But, after some more thought, I realized that this is the #8 pick, did a full workload at Stanford, and plenty of other rookies have carried the load as the starting RB their first season. Look at Dallas just last year, they had a rookie picked in the top of the draft, and he did a fantastic job. Now, I know we don't have the line they do, but this would only be for the few games Stewie might go down, and not the entire year, like they had in place. So, it might be safe to assume we'd still be ok, were that to happen.

[tiger7_88]

I have an inherent bias, so I can't contribute a lot to this conversation without the bias creeping in I admit ahead of time, but I will just leave this here.

In 3 years of service with the Panthers, Whitaker has played in 41 regular season games (2 starts) and has had 4 games where he has contributed more than 50 yards of offense (1 of those was a game with 50+ yards rushing).  In the 41 regular season games that Whitaker has played in, he has scored 3 TDs, had 1 fumble, and his reception % (reception/targets) is 78% (on 54 targets) with an 8.3 yards per reception.  Whitaker has 82 total offensive yards in the postseason (4 games) with 1 TD and 1 fumble.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WhitFo00.htm

In 2 years of service with the Panthers, Artis-Payne has played in 10 regular season games (3 starts) and has had 5 games where he has contributed more than 50 yards of offense (2 of those were games with 50+ yards rushing).  In the 10 regular season games that Artis-Payne has played in, he has scored 3 TDs, hasn't fumbled, and his reception % (reception/targets) is 100% (on 6 targets) with an 11.5 yards/reception.  Artis-Payne has 8 total offensive yards in the postseason (1 game) with not TD and 1 fumble.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/ArtiCa00.htm

Again, admitted inherent bias here, but I honestly don't understand what people expect Artis-Payne to do if the coaches *will* *not* play him.  When he HAS played, he's done OK.  He averages you 4 yards a pop.  He catches what is thrown to him.  He also runs hard and gets yards after contact.  In the few opportunities he's been given the last two years, I've seen him get 1st downs on short yardage situations after being hit at the LOS and powering through first contact.

Is it his blocking?  Maybe.  The only back on the roster over the last two years that can block at all in passing situations is Stewie.  Tolbert was a HORRIBLE blocker and that didn't stop the coaches love affair with him.  And I sure as hell don't see Whitaker doing any blocking in the backfield.

Again, Artis-Payne's history with this team may well be short.  Such is the NFL, especially at the RB position.  It won't be a shock to me and I'll get over it quick... c'est la vie.  But WTF has this kid got to do to earn at least a drop of respect besides what he has done, which is produce on the field when he has been asked to do so?

[KB_fan]

7 hours ago, tiger7_88 said:

But WTF has this kid got to do to earn at least a drop of respect besides what he has done, which is produce on the field when he has been asked to do so?

You make good points, and I agree CAP's production hasn't been all that bad when he's been on the field.

Not having an ear to the coaches, it's hard to say what they have against CAP, but I tend to think it's his blocking / protection.  That could be one reason why even late last season he didn't get playing time in what was "garbage time" of the season.  Our Oline was such a mess, I think they wanted Stew in for the blocking.

[Raskle]

10 hours ago, tiger7_88 said:

WTF has this kid got to do to earn at least a drop of respect besides what he has done, which is produce on the field when he has been asked to do so?

I understand where you're coming from, but to be completely fair, it's not an apples to oranges comparison. You also have to factor in who the opponent was when they played, their respective defensive rankings, etc., and weight those to compare their stats.

I liken this to soccer, in that one thing about most folks don't get, is that you're never truly guaranteed a starting spot on the team at game time. Each week, the players have to show in practice that they have earned the right to start for the team, and those that are almost there are part of the substitute pool. There's never any real doubt in the fans minds that the starting eleven are the best fit for that game, regardless of star power or how much a player is paid. Now, football is a little different, but the same mentality should be applied, in that the best players should be playing week in and week out. For CAP not to even scratch the active roster most game days is quite telling, and maybe behind closed doors, he's just not practiced well enough to earn that spot.

 

Of course, it could also just be the usual narrative from the Ron haters, in that he sticks with his vets, and takes way too long to inject rookies into the mix. But, I guess we'll see come the end of TC, if CMC and Samuel are starting or not. If they are, then CAP just didn't make the cut. If they aren't, then.... the Ron haters might be on to something.

[MechaZain]

On 5/29/2017 at 0:20 PM, ItsPantone278 said:

He's a RB.  He probably plays right at or around 200.  I don't think him being 10lbs heavier would make him any more durable.  You just have to expect the highest draft choice since Cam will be a feature cornerstone franchise level player.  If you trust what DG says one thing he said over and over is McCaffrey can do it all.  If he and Rivera believe that no reason to think it won't be what we see on the field.  When asked how will he be used McCaffrey and Rivera have said on separate occasions the same thing.  We'll use him like he was used at Stanford.

Yep. Walter Payton and Barry Sanders also came right in at 200lb. It's a non-issue.

The durability thing is honestly BS too. He had one of college football's heaviest loads.  More rushing AND receiving attempts than Fournette.

[Bronn]

Stewart
McCaffrey
Fozzy

That's your RBs on the 53 man roster come cut day.

[Steve_Smith_Sr.]

On 5/29/2017 at 7:58 AM, Jeremy Igo said:

Is there any reason not to think CMC could be a better between the tackles runner than CAP?

Yes.  He's white.

[Ace_Aladdin]

2 hours ago, Bronn said:

Stewart
McCaffrey
Fozzy

That's your RBs on the 53 man roster come cut day.

Nope

J-Stew 

McCaffrey

CAP

[FattyFatFat]

I mean if we're talking fozzy or cap, I'd rather have fozzy.


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[LinvilleGorge]

3 hours ago, MechaZain said:

Yep. Walter Payton and Barry Sanders also came right in at 200lb. It's a non-issue.

The durability thing is honestly BS too. He had one of college football's heaviest loads.  More rushing AND receiving attempts than Fournette.

It's a different league now.

I think CMC can be very good for us, but we're definitely not gonna be pounding him between the tackles 15+ times per game like we do with Stew if we're smart.

[tiger7_88]

36 minutes ago, FattyFatFat said:

I mean if we're talking fozzy or cap, I'd rather have fozzy.


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Why exactly?

[jfra78]

having cmc and samuel might allow us to drop both

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