What to make of Cameron Artis-Payne

[top dawg]

8 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

No way would I consider CAP a lock to make the roster. In fact, I think he may be on the outside looking in at the moment. But, the stats bear out that he was roughly equal to Stew in effectiveness last year.

Stew averaged 3.78ypc and a TD once every 24 carries.

CAP averaged 4ypc and a TD once every 18 carries.

Hell, it may be generous saying that Stew was equal to CAP in effectiveness last year. I think a lot of Panthers fans suffer from nostalgia when looking at Stew. I still think he's a decent RB, but to hear some Panthers fans talk you'd think that the guy was a future HOFer. I feel like most of us (myself and the front office and coaching staff included) have perpetually overvalued Jonathan Stewart.

And he still has broken more tackles than most, and is arguably the best. That should tell you that perhaps you're underestimating his value. He's also probably the best blocking back in the league. That is very important. Sure he had a bad year in regards to injuries, but other than that he is not that far off the league average for RB injuries. I'm not suggesting that he hasn't been overpaid, but we'll hopefully get some equalization the next couple of years.

[KB_fan]

12 hours ago, SOJA said:

CAP will probably make it over Fozzy just because he is more akin to Stewart than Fozzy is

That was my logic in my first post-draft roster projection posted a month ago, but a lot of people who commented on what I posted on Twitter picked Fozzy over CAP, and I think I've swung to that way of thinking.  Fozzy played very well last year and I *think* he was our first player who got an extension / new contract in the off-season.  Coaches think REALLY highly of him.  

Playing style would dictate keeping CAP over Fozzy.  CMC *seems* to make Fozzy expendable.  But I think the leadership / locker room qualities / experience probably give the edge to Fozzy.  We'll have to see how J Stew holds up in training camp.  Any injury to him could possibly give more chance to CAP.  But given how little playing time our coaches have given CAP, it's not looking great for him at this point.  PS is likely in my opinion.

[KB_fan]

12 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Whittaker, by the way, averaged 4.6 yards per carry and has a 4.2 career average...not shabby.

And he was also one of our best receivers last year (though of course his receiving targets weren't that numerous).  For awhile he had the highest catch %  (catches / targets) on the team.  I'm not sure how the standings ended up, but Fozzy made some really nice plays last season.  There were a few games where he was one of the only bright spots on our offense.

[KB_fan]

6 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

What I would like to see is CAP get a good percentage of playing time in TC.  Give Stewart enough to get his legs under him and the rest to CAP.  We have to see what he can do with the starters.  I don't think a whole lot of Reps with the second team is going to prove much.

This makes sense to a degree with one big BUT...

It's clear we'll be changing up our offense quite a bit this season - both due to the need for "evolution" and because of all the new players on offense we have to integrate - especially CMC & Samuel.  So, Stew needs more reps than he would have needed last year just to get in a rhythm with the new guys...

Otherwise what you write makes sense. 

[AU-panther]

Last year:

Every down back:  Stewart

back up every down back: CAP

change of pace little back: Fozzy

change of pace big back: Tolbert

I think the coaches didn't feel like CAP needed to be active if Stewart was healthy at the beginning of the game because worst case Tolbert and Fozzy could handle the carries if Stewart was injured during the game.  Everyone wanted to list Tolbert as a FB but the coaches almost treated him like a RB at times.

I could see the team keeping CAP just as easily as Fozzy.

Also I'm really hesitant to get caught up in YPC numbers with our RBs.  Somebody had a thread talking about Stewart having the most missed tackles since 2015.  That tells me he hasn't really had the blocking.  When you watch a RB you have to ask yourself if another RB would have actually got more out of the same situation.  Also in regards to Fozzy his numbers might be a little higher because he receives a higher percentage of carries on passing downs and distances(just a guess on my part)  .  A 7yrd draw on 3rd and 15 isn't any more impressive then a 3yrd run on 1st and 10.

[grateflday]

The fact he saw very little to no playing time towards the end of the season, when the season we pretty much over, was pretty telling to me. 

[Mr. Scot]

What can I make of Cameron Artis-Payne?

What I don't think I can make - barring injuries - is a spot for him on this year's Panthers roster.

He may surprise, but I'm not expecting it.

[rayzor]

is it possible that fozzy fits better than stewart in the evolved offense and stewart's role will be diminishing and only really used because he's still here?

just throwing another dimension to the discussion. if there is any validity to this idea, then CAP's presence on the team is pretty much unnecessary.

[Hoenheim]

The only problem is with CAP gone, if anything happens to Stewart then we have a gaping hole at a power RB in short yardage. I doubt the team seriosly wants to make Cam the go to option I'l bet teams wills till be headhunting and gunning for him everytime Cam runs . The only thing I can think of is if they are going to use Armah as the FB and run him in these short situations or have him down blocking in the power I and have McCaffrey or Fozzy try to slip through the cracks. 

I'll just say, we all better hope Stewart stays healthy this year. No one seemingly has considered the possiblity yet, but if McCaffrey ends up being a bust and Stew is injured for significant time again we're gonna be screwed with teams not respecting our run game and unleashing the hounds of hell to rip cam to pieces again. 

[stankowalski]

I think CAP is more of a lock than Fozzy only because of CMc.

[Jeremy Igo]

6 hours ago, grateflday said:

The fact he saw very little to no playing time towards the end of the season, when the season we pretty much over, was pretty telling to me. 

Yep

[Ace_Aladdin]

11 hours ago, KB_fan said:

That was my logic in my first post-draft roster projection posted a month ago, but a lot of people who commented on what I posted on Twitter picked Fozzy over CAP, and I think I've swung to that way of thinking.  Fozzy played very well last year and I *think* he was our first player who got an extension / new contract in the off-season.  Coaches think REALLY highly of him.  

Playing style would dictate keeping CAP over Fozzy.  CMC *seems* to make Fozzy expendable.  But I think the leadership / locker room qualities / experience probably give the edge to Fozzy.  We'll have to see how J Stew holds up in training camp.  Any injury to him could possibly give more chance to CAP.  But given how little playing time our coaches have given CAP, it's not looking great for him at this point.  PS is likely in my opinion.

I don't think we need our 3rd string RB to be a vocal leader & CAP should have gained experience by now . He will be kept due to his ability to run inside & outsid along with being a better pass protector. 

[Mr. Scot]

7 hours ago, rayzor said:

is it possible that fozzy fits better than stewart in the evolved offense and stewart's role will be diminishing and only really used because he's still here?

just throwing another dimension to the discussion. if there is any validity to this idea, then CAP's presence on the team is pretty much unnecessary.

I'd consider that a real possibility.

I think part of the "evolution" might be us going to more of an E-P approach, i.e. more efficient chain moving and sustained drives and less chuck it downfield praying for a big play.

That being the case, take a look at the guys in the Patriots backfield.

[shaqattaq]

On 5/29/2017 at 7:42 AM, top dawg said:

At worse, PS. At best, inactive.

Yep.