PFF Samuel Monson: Panthers Offense Is The One To Watch Out For, Not The Bucs

[shaqattaq]

13 hours ago, Lasus83. said:

People keep looking at the draft as what will determine our success in 2017. But that will undeservedly get the credit.

Our success 100% is dependent upon the health of our offensive line.

I have been saying this since before the end of the season and I'll get no credit for it come the end of this next season. But that doesn't make it any less true

Sent using the amazing CarolinaHuddle mobile app
 

I agree with you that the O-line is obviously important. Specifically Kalil at LT, there's a lot riding on his huge, very wealthy, shoulders. The draft (and new-found speed of the offense) is intended to hide/take some of the pressure off of the O-line if it is less than perfect, so I wouldn't say our success is 100% dependent on them. I still give you pie for showing some hogmollie love! 

[GoobyPls]

15 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

Please show me these stats that we struggled to run vs Nickel and Dime....It's becoming clear that you are not as informed as you think you are. The majority of our offense operated from 11 (1 HB / 1 TE) & 12 (1 HB / 2 TE) which means that teams could still match-up in base (4-3 / 3-4) or Nickel (5 DBs/2LBs) -- the struggles were if we checked to a pass the receivers we had in 11 & 12 personnel could not create separation (KB/Funchess/Ginn) as Ginn rarely lined up in the slot and Stewart in the backfield who is not a mis-match from a coverage stand point. 

Now you flip that personnel, and replace Ginn with Samuel who now moves inside to the slot, or start him in the backfield to motion to the slot across formation forces the defense to tips it's hand from a coverage stand point (man if he's followed, zone if you see a shift), and moves Funchess (or Johnson outside), Not to mentioned McCaffrey can be used in the same fashion. This is invaluable information KNOWING whether you are facing man or zone on a given play. 

That is something we were unable to do last season as the HB was typically Stewart or Tolbert, and Dickson has been ineffective as a pass catcher in his tenor here. If you can't see that we literally have options that can line up anywhere, and create issues for a coordinator and your only consolation is zone defense then you're a lost cause. Zone defense is STILL personnel based, and with a lighter box (5-6 defenders) instead of facing (7-8) defenders because the receivers weren't a threat makes a HUGE difference. 

What stats? Look at Stewart's game log the majority of teams base defense is the nickel and Stewart barely averaged 4 ypc against any team. Our run blocking isn't that good and Stewart is slower than molasses at this point in his career. Teams don't fear our running game like you imagine. 

 

Also defenses can still move move when playing zone, and you have broad vision that Mccaffrey and Samuel will get separation the second they hit the field. One guy who got most of his catches out of the backfield against soft coverage and another that barely knows how to run routes and lived of swing passes are supposed to come in and destroy NFL DB, you are in for very rude awakening. 

 

If our offense has success these two rookies will be low on the totem pole of importance. Cam, the line and Kelvin are the tone foundation 

[SetfreexX]

22 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

What stats? Look at Stewart's game log the majority of teams base defense is the nickel and Stewart barely averaged 4 ypc against any team. Our run blocking isn't that good and Stewart is slower than molasses at this point in his career. Teams don't fear our running game like you imagine. 

 

Also defenses can still move move when playing zone, and you have broad vision that Mccaffrey and Samuel will get separation the second they hit the field. One guy who got most of his catches out of the backfield against soft coverage and another that barely knows how to run routes and lived of swing passes are supposed to come in and destroy NFL DB, you are in for very rude awakening. 

 

If our offense has success these two rooked will be low on the totem pole of importance. Cam, the line and Kelvin are the tone foundation 

Ok then I guess you know more than oh I dunno the GM / Coach / OC. I suppose the other players taken in the TOP 10 are expected to have minimal impact. As well as players taken at the top of the 2nd.... (King, Zay Jones, etc)

And what you still leave out is the OL last season was literally ONLY had Norwell left at his original spot (LG), Mike Remmers WAS OUR STARTING LT. We were down to a 3rd string UDFA C (Larsen) our pro-bowl RG (Turner) was playing RT, and our RG was THE Chris Scott. We had no FB in Tolbert it honestly would've been worse IF Stewart was not our running back when it come's to the 1st, and 2nd down carries.  

If you can't separate that crap show of an OL and transpose it vs our lack of effectiveness IN ALL ASPECTS of the offense you'll continue to embarrass yourself from an understanding of personnel and how it all flows together.

And again you continue to reference zone defense, let me break down what the additions add to the equation that we didn't have vs zone last year....pay close attention.

YARDS AFTER CATCH

Brown, Stewart, and Tolbert were MINIMAL threats for YAC on a consistent basis, do you know what this allowed...it allowed the underneath defenders in zone (LBs/Ss/nickel backs) to drop to a greater depth to help on guess what....our intermediate and deep passing game, which guess what...struggled as a result of tighter throwing lanes leading to guess what...less than two yards of separation, and Cam having the smallest windows of ANY QB in the NFL...why, because teams did not respect us underneath when in zone. 

So now you put players on the field who are much greater threats underneath in McCaffrey & Samuel instead of Stewart, Tolbert, and Brown, and I guarantee you those same (LBs/Ss/Nickels) will have to worry more about leaving as much space as they once did...which guess what....opens up those throwing lanes,...which guess what creates bigger throwing lanes....which guess what....leads to plays that were not available last season, or any in recent memory. 

If your vision isn't broad enough to see McCaffrey & Samuel as UPGRADES in the underneath passing game vs two players we let walk, and a power runner. You sir are simply a fool when it comes to understanding football.

 

[shaqattaq]

2 hours ago, SetfreexX said:

When it comes to DeSean Jackson vs Samuel he may be the better deep threat / receiver today, however DeSean is 31 this year and Samuel is 22 iirc. But Jackson has always been and still is a vertical threat, and the occasional punt returns at this point in his career but that's about it. The thing about Samuel is not only does he have the potential to be that vertical threat for us BUT he will also provide a multiple look for our offense that's an aspect Jackson can't duplicate, then when you factor in McCaffrey as well it only adds to the mis-match potential. 

What the PFF writer was saying is NOT dismissive of the talent on Tampa's roster but rather the lack of mis-matches it can create vs man coverage. He highlighted Olsen, McCaffrey, & Samuel vs man 1v1 all three of them are a mismatch for the LB/S/nickel. You have to remember that all three of them can line up in the backfield >> motion to the slot >> split wide - putting a S/LB in that kind of open field vs any of those three is a win for us. 

Then beyond that we still have a thousand yard receiver in Benjamin outside, you guys can complain about the hold vs Minnesota, or the effort vs San Diego, but you can't deny he is a legit number one / thousand yard receiver. And while you guys may not respect him, NFL coaches do, and he still draws bracket coverage, and as the lone threat back in 14 (Avant, and Cotchery) he carried our receivers. The presence of now three legitimate threats underneath means less bracket coverage on KB, less green dog blitzes (from man coverage) due to the math-up issues. 

So while Tampa Bay's offense may have been upgraded considerably from a traditional stand-point, they didn't create the kind of match-up issues we did when taking two players that create the opportunities McCaffrey & Samuel can. 

Good interpretation. The author isn't knocking Tampa, he's just saying that their Offense will come in second to us. (Fug you falcons). I agree with him. In fact, I mentioned in a post a couple of weeks ago that they (or ATL) are likely to get a wildcard. 

BTW, I think our D will be much better than theirs provided that everyone stays healthy, so that has to be figured into the match-up equation. Their slot guys / TE's will be facing TD, Luke, Shaq, and Cpt. I almost pity them. And finally, Cam is badass!

[Hogmolliesmaht]

Never argue with a fool or a guy named Gooby

[ecu88]

8 minutes ago, Hogmolliesmaht said:

Never argue with a fool or a guy named Gooby

Meet GoobyPyles

[shaqattaq]

2 hours ago, grimesgoat said:

This is a very good comment.

2000 yds rushing and 4000 yds passing puts us top 5 in rushing and around 12-15th in passing.  I believe that is the sweet spot.

If Benjamin is getting 1000, the TEs Olsen/Dickson are getting 1000, and our shiny new toys Samuel and CMC are getting around 1000 yards in the air, that doesn't leave a whole lot for the rest of the gang.  Funchess, Shepherd, and Johnson are all capable receivers, but their numbers are not going to be spectacular if we are still a 2000 yard rushing team.

Funchess may have been a little over-drafted, but he will be good for what he will be asked to do.  He will convert 3rd downs to firsts.  He will be a good red zone target.  He will excel in blocking due to his size mis-match. But barring injury and being the third or fourth option probably only nets him 400-600 yds this year. 

The math makes sense, and I like that you combined our 2 new toys into one kickass player.

[Lumps]

14 hours ago, Lasus83. said:

People keep looking at the draft as what will determine our success in 2017. But that will undeservedly get the credit.

Our success 100% is dependent upon the health of our offensive line.

I have been saying this since before the end of the season and I'll get no credit for it come the end of this next season. But that doesn't make it any less true

Sent using the amazing CarolinaHuddle mobile app
 

This is a given and everyone already knows this...they're talking about the draft prospects, why do you think you're special?

[MadHatter]

4 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

Nope I read the part where he said Desean can juts run really fast. PFF is full of brainless idiots and mouth breathers who fall in their every words like you.

 

You really think Mccaffrey and Samuel are some on-coverable weapons the NFL have never seen? LOL. You put a average DB on either on them, jam them up and they are done, their rookies with no experience. Match up nightmare is what Tampa surrounded Jamies with, one of the best deep threats in the NFL with a 6'5 monster who catches everything, the perfect balance

What makes them an issue is that they are interchangeable at slot and RB....which means they will often get matched up against a LB.  This is a HUGE matchup advantage for us. 

What Tampa has are ordinary weapons...you know what you have when they are in.  You really do NOT get this....again, not really a surprise.

And, feel free to move on down the road and be a fan of TB....you won't be missed.

[KalElofKrypton]

2 minutes ago, MadHatter said:

What makes them an issue is that they are interchangeable at slot and RB....which means they will often get matched up against a LB.  This is a HUGE matchup advantage for us. 

What Tampa has are ordinary weapons...you know what you have when they are in.  You really do NOT get this....again, not really a surprise.

And, feel free to move on down the road and be a fan of TB....you won't be missed.

I'm certain that no matter how well CMAC does over the next few years @GoobyPls will start threads about how overrated he is due to lack of melanin.

[MadHatter]

1 hour ago, Hogmolliesmaht said:

Never argue with a fool or a guy named Gooby

They are actually the same.

[Hogmolliesmaht]

5 minutes ago, MadHatter said:

They are actually the same.

Yeah, that's what I was insinuating.

[Black&BlueBubba]

Who's knocking him for his hands? The kid never dropped a ball last year and had 74 targets.  Wtf? Route running could use polishing but it's at least average. 

I definitely agree with this.  I like KB, and think he can be dominant, but he needs more speed opposite to take some of the coverage off him.  To be honest, Funchess was a guy I wanted nothing to do with prior to that draft.  But once we took him, I tried to look at him with fresh eyes and could see where the team felt he has good upside.  Unfortunately, he has not developed as fast as I would prefer, but I have seen enough flashes to maintain hope.  And since we knew he was a bit raw and very young coming in, I can understand the slow development.  
They say it can take up to three years for a receiver to figure things out in the NFL, so this is the season that he needs to demonstrate that he is getting it and starting to put things together (I'm not looking for him to be a finished product, but he needs to show more than flashes).  I don't expect big numbers from him since there are only so many balls to go around, but I want to see him be a legitimate threat that can burn teams if they ignore him   

Samuel only had a drop rate of 3.4% I saw somewhere. What hurts is that he had 2 huge tipped balls for interceptions in big games last year. Maybe not charged to him but he jumped too early on one. I think he will be fine.

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[SetfreexX]

10 minutes ago, Black&BlueBubba said:

 

 

 

 

Samuel only had a drop rate of 3.4% I saw somewhere. What hurts is that he had 2 huge tipped balls for interceptions in big games last year. Maybe not charged to him but he jumped too early on one. I think he will be fine.

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His QB was J.T. Barrett -- I recommend you guys go back and watch that Michigan game (one of the ones a tipped passes resulted in an INT to Peppers) the QB situation at OSU was not a great one. Barrett can run, but as a passer, he missed a lot of throws an NFL QB makes to a receiver as open as Samuel was on a few of those routes. But in the end, one of newest additions, and their best skill player found a way to impact and win that game!

Also see Barrett's QBR in two of the biggest games, they were abysmal - http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/545624/jt-barrett

I think like with many college receivers a pairing with an NFL QB will prove a lot of doubters wrong.