PFF Says Kelvin Benjamin Is "One Of The NFL's Most Reliable Recievers" ....

[Saca312]

Last thing anyone here probably thought was that Kelvin Benjamin's a reliable receiver. Heck, we all remember his drop against KC, his lazy play, and his sluggish style, but last thing we'd expect is that he's one of the NFL's most reliable receivers.

Well, PFF provides a counter-argument to that.

According to PFF, Kelvin Benjamin is one of the league's most reliable receivers, supposedly only dropping 2 catchable catches in 2016...

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-panthers-pick-up-wr-kelvin-benjamins-fifth-year-option/

Quote

• Benjamin’s receiving grade of 80.4 ranked 21st in the NFL last season.
• He was one of the NFL’s most dependable receivers last season dropping only two of 65 catchable passes, good for the seventh best rate in the league.

 

Well, what do you think about this?

EDIT: I recommend you read this post to further solidify your conclusion on Kelvin. Very insightful. I believe it was made before the Falcons and Bucs game tho.

 

[t96]

Last year, sure he was technically reliable overall. But he was inconsistent on a week to week basis in terms of production. His drops were a much bigger issue in '14, but one that could easily come back next year, who knows. I'm not nearly as down on him as anyone else here but he definitely has work to do to put it all together.

[The Huddler]

What?? 

 

 

Its not like his size makes what the Beast of Kelvin Benjamin is! Hes fat! He sucks! He needs to be 215!!!!

 

 

 

[Davidson Deac II]

I didn't think he had much of a problem with drops this year.  Getting open was more of a problem (though not all his fault), as well as one or two boneheaded penalties.   But overall, he played fairly well this past season.  Our offense as a whole was terrible though.

[Davidson Deac II]

4 minutes ago, thomas96 said:

Last year, sure he was technically reliable overall. But he was inconsistent on a week to week basis in terms of production. His drops were a much bigger issue in '14, but one that could easily come back next year, who knows. I'm not nearly as down on him as anyone else here but he definitely has work to do to put it all together.

Not all of which is his fault. Our entire offense was inconsistent in terms of production last year. 

[The Huddler]

5 minutes ago, thomas96 said:

Last year, sure he was technically reliable overall. But he was inconsistent on a week to week basis in terms of production. His drops were a much bigger issue in '14, but one that could easily come back next year, who knows. I'm not nearly as down on him as anyone else here but he definitely has work to do to put it all together.

Id put more blame on the offense, injuries, and chemistry than the actual players themselves. Hard to be consistent when miving parts around you arent. 

 

Huge resurgence for him but more importantly the offense and team as a whole in 2017

[jumpman910]

Not surprised, people kept bashing him but Olsen barely had a better drop percentage and even at some points of the season KB was dropping less balls then Olsen. But sure lets trade him for peanuts...... 

[t96]

3 minutes ago, The Huddler said:

Id put more blame on the offense, injuries, and chemistry than the actual players themselves. Hard to be consistent when miving parts around you arent. 

 

Huge resurgence for him but more importantly the offense and team as a whole in 2017

I'd put more blame for the offensive struggles on other factors than on KB too, but that doesn't mean you can just ignore the individual's performance. KB definitely showed inconsistency and need for improvement last year, though I hope a lot of it was due to coming off of the injury.

And in response to your second sentence, actually the moving parts around a player are completely irrelevant to his performance. His stats are affected, yes. But not how he plays.

[t96]

6 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Not all of which is his fault. Our entire offense was inconsistent in terms of production last year. 

I'm talking about only his play, not his stats or how the offense was performing as a whole. KB was dreadful against the Vikings. Absolutely terrible. That after dominating the first two weeks and looking as good as Dez Bryant has ever looked. Yes the Vikings have a solid secondary and that plays into it to some degree, but KB was running poor routes that game, had some miscues on balls he could've caught, and the block in the back penalty negating Fozzy's long TD. The KB that game, and others last year, was different than the KB the first two weeks. He's flashed greatness, and for most of the 15 games outside of the Vikings game he was either great or not bad, but he wasn't great week to week. Which he can be if he wants to.

[Cpt slay a ho]

Inconsistency is KB's biggest issue, nothing else, the clamoring on here about trading him and not extending the 5th year option is laughable


Sent from my iPhone using CarolinaHuddle

[Darth Biscuit]

There were times in the first half of the season where he flashed some real brilliance... times I thought he looked unstoppable.  If he'll put the work and effort in he can be a true #1 and with the addition of McCaffrey and Samuels to take some coverage away, our passing game could be tops in the league.

Towards the end of the season his effort level noticeably dropped off.  If I had been his coach he would have taken a seat in a hurry.

[The Huddler]

1 minute ago, thomas96 said:

I'd put more blame for the offensive struggles on other factors than on KB too, but that doesn't mean you can just ignore the individual's performance. KB definitely showed inconsistency and need for improvement last year, though I hope a lot of it was due to coming off of the injury.

And in response to your second sentence, actually the moving parts around a player are completely irrelevant to his performance. His stats are affected, yes. But not how he plays.

Concussed hurt QB, Irratic OC, chemistry of offense has no effect on a WR? Off beat Rythem and playcalling? How can you determine consistancy without stats? I disagree

 

If hes one of the most reliable recievers in the league, id think that means hes pretty consistent   PFF determined he played well  

 

i think it is more of a system failed the players than players failed the system type of situation. 

 

 

[Saca312]

Someone did something cool on reddit a couple of months ago pretty much at the end of our season, debunking a lot of claims that "KB sucks" with his own take:

_________________________________________________________________________________

Claim: Kelvin Benjamin gets too many penalties

Proof Provided: None

 

The first claim is that Kelvin Benjamin hinders his team with the amount of penalties he draws for the offense and his poor decision making. Because decision making is not a stat that I can accurately measure, or measure at all for that matter, penalties will have to do. In 2016, the Panthers have received 84 penalties, good for the 23rd spot in most penalties accepted. 48 have been on the offense and 19 have been on the defense. Of these 48 penalties on the offense, five have been from Benjamin, which is about 9.5% of the offense's penalties. With 13 games played, this comes about to about half a penalty a game for three yards, and a total of forty on the season. In terms of ranking among all NFL players, Kelvin is 115th in penalties, with three Panther's players ahead of him: Andrew Norwell, Trai Turner and Mike Remmers. Among wide receivers, Benjamin ranks ninth, with Devin Funchess being tenth. (All stats provided by nflpenalties.com)

 

Result: In conclusion, we can rule out penalties as the main problem with Kelvin Benjamin this season.

 

---

 

Claim: Drops are Kelvin Benjamin's main problem

Proof Provided: None

 

The second claim that I found is that Kelvin Benjamin drops the ball too much. This season, Kelvin Benjamin has dropped ONE pass, roughly one percent of all targets, down 90% from 2014. While he ranked third in 2014 (and Ted Ginn ranked second last year), Kelvin currently ranks 211th in the league in drops this year. Currently, all Panther's offensive skill position players are ahead of KB in drops, with the one exception being Philly Brown. Ed Dickson and Mike Tolbert lead the team with drops on 18% of all targets, good for 3rd and 4th place among all players with eight or more receptions. (stats provided by sportingcharts.com)

Result: Obviously False.

 

---

 

Claim: Kelvin hasn't been playing like a #1 receiver

Proof Provided: None

The third claim that I found is that Kelvin Benjamin has not been playing like a number one receiver. This one I will have to do my own number crunching, so here come the tables:

Rank	#1 Receiver	Team	Targets	Receptions	Receiving Yards	TD
1	Julio Jones	ATL	113	72	1,253	5
2	T.Y Hilton	IND	127	78	1,203	6
3	Antonio Brown	PIT	139	93	1,130	11
4	Odell Beckham Jr.	NYG	134	79	1,109	9
5	Mike Evans	TB	147	80	1,100	10
6	Amari Cooper	OAK	114	73	1,010	4
7	A.J Green	CIN	100	66	964	4
8	Emmanuel Sanders	DEN	130	975	958	5
9	Kenny Britt	STL	99	63	937	5
10	Jarvis Landry	MIA	109	79	923	2
11	Jordy Nelson	GB	125	75	913	12
12	Tyrell Williams	SD	94	55	905	6
13	Mike Wallace	BAL	101	62	902	4
14	Larry Fitzgerald	AZ	131	93	892	5
15	Doug Baldwin	SEA	97	74	878	5
17	Brandin Cooks	NO	94	63	870	6
18	Stefon Diggs	MIN	100	78	861	2
18	Terrelle Pryor Sr.	CLE	116	63	858	4
19	Golden Tate	DET	106	71	820	3
20	Jamison Crowder	WSH	87	60	804	7
21	Julian Edelman	NE	125	79	791	2
22	Kelvin Benjamin	CAR	99	51	765	5
23	Jordan Matthews	PHI	100	65	765	13
24	Brandon Marshal	NYJ	113	56	744	3
25	Marqise Lee	ATL	86	54	728	2
26	Willie Snead	NO	84	59	716	4
27	DeAndre Hopkins	HOU	116	60	701	4
28	Rishard Matthews	Ten	76	49	695	7
29	Alshon Jeffrey	CHI	73	40	630	1
30	Tyreek Hill	KC	68	52	547	6
31	Robert Woods	BUF	61	43	522	1
32	Jeremy Kerley	SF	91	48	516	3

 

As we can see, it doesn't look to great when you compare Benjamin to other number one receivers. But when I was typing this out two things stuck out to me:

1) Of the 99 targets, only 51 were caught. With one drop this season, that leaves 47 unaccounted for throws. Even if the defense impacted half of them, that still leaves 23 unaccounted for. Maybe this is starting to say more about our quarterback..

 

2) There were multiple tight ends that were ahead of their respective offense's number one receiver, Kelvin Benjamin included. When you think of a number one receiver, you usually think of the number one player the offense would go to in any given situation. So what about offense's that feature tight ends as that player?

 

Rank	#2 Target	Team	Targets	Receptions	Receiving Yards	TD
1	Kelvin Benjamin	CAR	99	51	765	5
2	Rishard Matthews	Ten	76	49	695	7
3	Tyreek Hill	KC	68	52	547	6

 

As you can see, Kelvin Benjamin leads the small but telling category of offense's that feature a TE as their number one target.

Result: Kelvin Benjamins comparison to opposing teams number one receiver is skewed as he is of the few offenses that feature a TE as the true number one. (all receiving stats by espn.com)

---

Claim: Kelvin is bad at YAC

Proof: None

The third claim that I found was that Kelvin Benjamin is not good at gaining yards after the catch. After a quick google I was able to find that Kelvin is 94th in the league at YAC with 3.7 yards gained on average with a total of 189 on the season. It appears as if this may be the winner, but hold your horses cause here's some comparisons:

 

Rank	Player	Team	Pos	Receptions	Receiving Yards	YAC	YAC Avg
32	Greg Olsen	CAR	TE	65	907	311	4.8
76	Fozzy Whittaker	CAR	RB	23	187	217	9.4
94	Kelvin Benjamin	CAR	WR	51	765	189	3.7
140	Ted Ginn Jr.	CAR	WR	43	590	131	3.0
180	Devin Funchess	CAR	WR	22	362	96	4.4
189	Philly Brown	CAR	WR	21	202	90	4.3
238	Mike Tolbert	CAR	FB/RB	7	44	55	7.9
253	Jonathan Stewart	CAR	RB	5	43	48	9.6

(sportingcharts.com)  

Result: "So wait, you're telling me Kelvin is actually second on the team in YAC?" Yes, yes I am. And no, the receivers ranking in this category is not good.

 

---

 

Claim: Kelvin is not clutch.

Proof: None.

The fourth claim that I found is that Kelvin Benjamin "either drops the ball or gives us a game ending penalty." Well, given that KB only has one drop credited to him this season and it did not come in the last two minutes of a game, we can disregard that statement. Now let's look at "game ending penalties"

 

Opponent	Penalty	Quarter	Time	Game Ending Penalty?
SF	Offensive Pass Interference	1	6:08	No
MIN	Holding	1	8:23	No
MIN	Illegal Block	2	10:33	No
AZ	Illegal Block	1	9:28	No
AZ	False Start	2	13:07	No
SEA	False Start	1	3:25	No
SEA	Offensive Pass Interference	3	1:29	No

 

Result: There are zero or penalties in the fourth quarter for Kelvin Benjamin this season.

---

 

Claim: Smaller defensive backs have been out-muscling and boxing out Kelvin Benjamin

Proof: None.

 

The fifth claim that I found is that smaller defensive backs have been out-muscling Kelvin Benjamin and apparently boxing him out. The notion that a smaller corner may be beating him isn't terribly hard to picture, judging by the fact that I do not believe there is a 6'5 245 lb. corner in the NFL, therefore any cornerback he goes against will be smaller, and that Richard Sherman (who is 6'3) was able to shut down Benjamin (two catches for 18 yards). Without in depth film review, I cannot chart how many times a defensive back has beat Kelvin Benjamin, so I will do the next best thing:

But here's a table anyway:

Opponent	Opposing CB	CB Height	Weight	Yards Allowed	TD
DEN	Chris Harris Jr.	5'10	199	91	1
SF	Jimmie Ward	5'11	192	108	2
MIN	Xavier Rhodes	6'1	215	0	0
ATL	Desmond Trufant	6'0	184	39	1
TB	Vernon Hargreaves	5'11	204	70	0
NO	Delvin Breaux	6'1	196	86	0
ARI	Patrick Peterson	6'1	219	73	0
LA	Trumaine Johnson	6'2	205	76	0
KC	Marcus Peters	6'0	196	84	0
NO	Delvin Breaux	6'1	196	56	0
OAK	Sean Smith	6'3	214	53	1
SEA	Richard Sherman	6'3	194	18	0
SD	Casey Hayward	5'11	192	11	0

Result: No Correlation.

 

---

Claim: Kelvin Benjamin "literally being on the team" is a hindrance... to the team.

Proof: None.

 

The sixth and final claim that I found states that him "literally being on the team" is a hindrance to the team. This one's an easy one. Last night while I was playing Madden, I was simulating a franchise and going through a draft of computer generated players. In a highly coincidental yet convenient event, I drafted a WR in the first round, a la the best player available. This drafted players name was Delray Marion. I will compare his and Kelvin Benjamins impact for the Panthers throughout 2016:

Receiver	Team	Targets	Receptions	Receiving Yards	TD
Kelvin Benjamin	CAR	99	51	765	5
Delray Marion	CAR	0	0	0	0

 

Result: So therefore, how can a player merely being on a roster effect the team? Surely that stat line has to buy his roster spot.

[t96]

3 minutes ago, The Huddler said:

Concussed hurt QB, Irratic OC, chemistry of offense has no effect on a WR? Off beat Rythem and playcalling? How can you determine consistancy without stats? I disagree

 

If hes one of the most reliable recievers in the league, id think that means hes pretty consistent   PFF determined he played well  

 

i think it is more of a system failed the players than players failed the system type of situation. 

 

 

They have an effect on how well the offense performs as a whole and the stats of the WR, but don't mean anything about how the WR played. Look at DeAndre Hopkins. The dude gets open at will nearly on a play to play basis but doesn't have a QB who can get him the ball. KB's not like that. Cam locked onto him a lot this year even when he wasn't open. And when he was open, Cam usually saw it because he was the first read quite a bit so Cam would deliver it to him. On many of the plays where KB wasn't targeted, he wasn't getting open very well. The great WRs, like KB can be, get open consistently, even if they're not getting the ball when they get open.

 

PFF ranked him #28 overall WR based on their overall grades. The "reliable" was only being used to describe him having only 2 drops on the year. #28 isn't great for a receiver with KB's talent.