Legit question. Does LeBron belong in the same breath as Jordan if he and the Cavs beat the Warriors this year?

[nctarheel0619]

1 minute ago, pantherphan96 said:

Bill Russell is the ultimate argument against rating players based off the amount of rings they have or their record in the Finals. HOFs like Elgin Baylor (0-8) and Jerry West (1-8) have awful records in the Finals but are still great players.

I'm glad you don't have Kobe past Shaq. I have Lebron at 3 right now speculating what his stats might look like by the time he retires, whether or not he moves up depends on if he wins any more Finals.

His stats will pass Kareem.  But, I think he could possibly be in the 8-9 range in Finals losses.  

[pantherphan96]

25 minutes ago, nctarheel0619 said:

Pistons team didn't have Ben Wallace, he was a Bull.  The Celtics were all past their primes, hence the reason Ray Allen left.  Rose was a baller that year, but if you're going to judge Jordan, Rose had no help besides shitty ass Noah.  Also, Paul George is not good.  Back then, he was okay.  But he's just not that good.  Never was.  And meh, it's not First Take.  We judge players on wins correct?  That's how we as adults argue sports.  Tom Brady had five rings, Montana has four.  Jordan is 6-0 when it matters.  At what point did we accept sucking ass when it matters and that being okay (check LeBrons stats in the forth quarter vs the Warriors)?  No player as the best player on their team is undefeated in the Finals.  Except Michael Jeffrey Jordan.  Even Bill Russell lost one, and you could argue Cousy was better sometimes. 

My biggest beef with Lebron in the 4th quarter is that too often he makes the smart play and not necessarily the best play. He hits guys who are wide open like Korver and Love, guys that are only on this Cavs team because they can make those types of shots, so in that sense it isn't a bad play, but they all too often don't come through. I wish he was more aggressive driving to the basket in crunch time.

I think its no surprise that the best Lebron team was in Miami when we moved from idling on the perimeter to backing down into the post and demanding the ball. His Finals stats are still incredible, first player to ever average a triple-double in the Finals, but that leads me to wonder whether this guy is just gassed late in the 4th considering he can't really rest (they went -7 in like 2 minutes of him resting in one of the Finals games).

[nctarheel0619]

3 minutes ago, pantherphan96 said:

My biggest beef with Lebron in the 4th quarter is that too often he makes the smart play and not necessarily the best play. He hits guys who are wide open like Korver and Love, guys that are only on this Cavs team because they can make those types of shots, so in that sense it isn't a bad play, but they all too often don't come through. I wish he was more aggressive driving to the basket in crunch time.

I think its no surprise that the best Lebron team was in Miami when we moved from idling on the perimeter to backing down into the post and demanding the ball. His Finals stats are still incredible, first player to ever average a triple-double in the Finals, but that leads me to wonder whether this guy is just gassed late in the 4th considering he can't really rest (they went -7 in like 2 minutes of him resting in one of the Finals games).

He controls the ball so much dude.  He had the ball in his hands more than the whole GS Warriors team in time this past series.  You ever wonder why he doesn't ask for a great coach?  This might sound stupid, but I honestly think he's uncoachable.  He and Russell Westbrook are both uncoachable players. They're good at everything, but not GREAT at one thing.  Well, you could argue Westbrook is more clutch, but, we're cherry picking at that point.  Honestly, I would like to see LeBron under a great coach.  It would be VERY interesting.  

[pantherphan96]

2 minutes ago, nctarheel0619 said:

He controls the ball so much dude.  He had the ball in his hands more than the whole GS Warriors team.  You ever wonder why he doesn't ask for a great coach?  This might sound stupid, but I honestly uncoachable.  He and Russell Westbrook are both uncoachable players. They're good at everything, but not GREAT at one thing.  Well, you could argue Westbrook is more clutch, but, we're cherry picking at that point.  Honestly, I would like to see LeBron under a great coach.  It would be VERY interesting.  

Ty Lue is fuging terrible, the only reason he is the coach is so Lebron can basically be player-coach. Blatt didn't have a spine either. Spolestra did a decent job with Lebron which is one of the reasons they went back-to-back. Lebron under a guy like Pop or Thibs would be intriguing.

[nctarheel0619]

3 minutes ago, pantherphan96 said:

Ty Lue is fuging terrible, the only reason he is the coach is so Lebron can basically be player-coach. Blatt didn't have a spine either. Spolestra did a decent job with Lebron which is one of the reasons they went back-to-back. Lebron under a guy like Pop or Thibs would be intriguing.

Spo turned out to be one of the best coaches in the NBA.  Shocked me.  Blatt is perfect for International ball, think he won another Title this year in Europe.  Why he wanted to coach Bron is beyond me.  Lue was LeBron's pick.  

I know one thing, Bron gets away with playing garbage defense and not boxing out on occasion (did that in game five a few times).  If he signed with San Antonio, Pop wouldn't have that poo.  

[nctarheel0619]

15 hours ago, pantherphan96 said:

 

I miss when the NBA was like this.  The competitiveness, the drive, the fire, the anger.  And two of the greats acknowledging MJ was the best.  Say what you want, but you'll never see LeBron in something like this.  He just wants to join up with those players on actual teams.  

[CarolinaSock]

On 6/15/2017 at 9:31 AM, Still Brooklyn said:

I pretty much agree with you all the way, Dave. But after watching the Lakers/Celtics 30 For 30 the past two nights, I learned Bill Walton joined the Celts during their run. So, lol ... ONE guy did it!

I miss the old NBA. The Bad Boys, etc. They would not be able to play in the sissy league we have now though. A league with next to no defense at all.

Playing football on the court does not equal good defense. Guys like LeBron or Shaq using sheer mass to run over or through people in the post isn't skill. This past year actually had the most points per game since 1992. Before that the 80s through 60s had more points per game nearly every year. 2016-2017 was the 33rd highest scoring season in nba history. Nostalgia and back in my day syndrome distort reality. 

[nctarheel0619]

38 minutes ago, CarolinaSock said:

Playing football on the court does not equal good defense. Guys like LeBron or Shaq using sheer mass to run over or through people in the post isn't skill. This past year actually had the most points per game since 1992. Before that the 80s through 60s had more points per game nearly every year. 2016-2017 was the 33rd highest scoring season in nba history. Nostalgia and back in my day syndrome distort reality. 

You just said LeBron doesn't have any skill, and he's the best player in this day in age.  So.............

[Mvp2014]

12 hours ago, pantherphan96 said:

My biggest beef with Lebron in the 4th quarter is that too often he makes the smart play and not necessarily the best play. He hits guys who are wide open like Korver and Love, guys that are only on this Cavs team because they can make those types of shots, so in that sense it isn't a bad play, but they all too often don't come through. I wish he was more aggressive driving to the basket in crunch time.

I think its no surprise that the best Lebron team was in Miami when we moved from idling on the perimeter to backing down into the post and demanding the ball. His Finals stats are still incredible, first player to ever average a triple-double in the Finals, but that leads me to wonder whether this guy is just gassed late in the 4th considering he can't really rest (they went -7 in like 2 minutes of him resting in one of the Finals games).

Lebron couldn't post up KD like he did Klay and Green last year.  Its just too bad his shooters didn't step up early on and make it a series.

[nctarheel0619]

58 minutes ago, Mvp2014 said:

Lebron couldn't post up KD like he did Klay and Green last year.  Its just too bad his shooters didn't step up early on and make it a series.

Or maybe, just maybe, he could try to take over in the forth quarter for once.  Ya know, like Kobe, Jordan, Bird, and others would've done.  Is it just so much to ask him to say "f uck it, I'm going in?"  Is it really that much to ask him to do?

I hate Skip Bayless, but that's been his argument for 14 years, and LeBron STILL doesn't take over games in the 4th when he needs to.  Inside 24 seconds LeBron is 37 percent from the field in the Playoffs ALL TIME.  Jordan?  An insane 50 percent 9-18.  I don't know what it is, but LeBron thinks he can hit jumpers at a good percentage when the games on the line.  Just take the damn ball to the basket, they're gonna call a foul, or he's going to make it.  Simple as that.  

[Mvp2014]

29 minutes ago, nctarheel0619 said:

Or maybe, just maybe, he could try to take over in the forth quarter for once.  Ya know, like Kobe, Jordan, Bird, and others would've done.  Is it just so much to ask him to say "f uck it, I'm going in?"  Is it really that much to ask him to do?

I hate Skip Bayless, but that's been his argument for 14 years, and LeBron STILL doesn't take over games in the 4th when he needs to.  Inside 24 seconds LeBron is 37 percent from the field in the Playoffs ALL TIME.  Jordan?  An insane 50 percent 9-18.  I don't know what it is, but LeBron thinks he can hit jumpers at a good percentage when the games on the line.  Just take the damn ball to the basket, they're gonna call a foul, or he's going to make it.  Simple as that.  

its not that simple.  If his guys are hitting jumpers it opens up the zone but he wasnt getting help other than kyrie driving for 2 pointers.  Warriors D is really good if you didn't notice.  

KDs defense was a huge x factor. Hes a better rim protector than most centers.  Sure Lebron blew by him several times but he cant post up and play low negating the wide open shooters.  Bottom line is his squad choked.  

 

[nctarheel0619]

53 minutes ago, Mvp2014 said:

its not that simple.  If his guys are hitting jumpers it opens up the zone but he wasnt getting help other than kyrie driving for 2 pointers.  Warriors D is really good if you didn't notice.  

KDs defense was a huge x factor. Hes a better rim protector than most centers.  Sure Lebron blew by him several times but he cant post up and play low negating the wide open shooters.  Bottom line is his squad choked.  

 

Disagree, he took the ball to the rim the majority of the time in the Finals.  And when he did, he usually made the basket.

Also, you say his squad choked?  You might want to look up his forth quarter numbers all series.  They were quite atrocious.  KD outplayed him in the forth every single game, but game four.  

[Mvp2014]

9 minutes ago, nctarheel0619 said:

Disagree, he took the ball to the rim the majority of the time in the Finals.  And when he did, he usually made the basket.

Also, you say his squad choked?  You might want to look up his forth quarter numbers all series.  They were quite atrocious.  KD outplayed him in the forth every single game, but game four.  

Its a team sport.  This tells you how efficient he is and what that team is without him.  

 

In 125 minutes with James on the court against the Warriors, the Cavaliers have a net rating of -8.6. Obviously, that’s not great. It’s certainly not an unsurprising number given the blowout nature of the first two games of the series, either. What’s truly insane, however, is Cleveland's net rating in the 19 minutes James has been on the bench. Seriously, are you sitting down for this? With James off the floor, the Cavs’ net rating craters to -45.4.

[nctarheel0619]

15 minutes ago, Mvp2014 said:

Its a team sport.  This tells you how efficient he is and what that team is without him.  

 

In 125 minutes with James on the court against the Warriors, the Cavaliers have a net rating of -8.6. Obviously, that’s not great. It’s certainly not an unsurprising number given the blowout nature of the first two games of the series, either. What’s truly insane, however, is Cleveland's net rating in the 19 minutes James has been on the bench. Seriously, are you sitting down for this? With James off the floor, the Cavs’ net rating craters to -45.4.

I saw that.  But LeGM put this team together.  Therefore, it's his own fault.  They are roughly, are you sitting down for this?  80 million over the luxury tax.  His owner is paying 80 million dollars out of his own pocket for the current team he has.  It's insane when you think about it.  Here's a legit question for all the LeBron guys on here.  Do you guys think he makes his teammates better?  Kyrie was a beast before LeBron went back to the Cavs.  You could argue Kevin Love is worse than he was in Minnesota.  Besides that, all the players are worse or the same that have played around LeBron.  I couldn't answer that question with a yes the other day when I thought about it.