"Cam Newton Isn't Accurate." Is That Really True? A Quick Look At Why Shula Is To Blame, And The Offense

[top dawg]

7 hours ago, PrimeTimeHeel said:

OP,

The gif you used of the KB catch had the slot WR WIDE OPEN in the middle of the field between the zones. 

Just watched the gif again, it also had the opposite side WR WIDE OPEN on his underneath crossing route. 

Cam just made a poor read and forced a low % pass in double coverage. Not to mention it was a fly/go route which has to be one of the lowest % routes in the game. 

People honestly buy this separation and cant get open crap?!?!?

Most teams play a lot of zone. So long as the WR can move ie run he can get in the soft spots of the zone. 

Even in man, unless the defender has telepathic abilities he is always gonna be a second behind the WR when he cuts / breaks. 

The defender has to wait and react to the WR. 

Now the separation might not be big, but its enough when timed right with an accurate pass. 

The problem isn't the players (mainly talking WRs here). Its the scheming and execution ie Shula and Cam. 

 

Yes, I saw that too. Cam absolutely made the wrong read and forced the ball to Benjamin on the deep throw.

 

 

I have said plenty of times now that Gettleman, Rivera, Shula and Cam are going to have to improve this offseason to get us back on track. It's not any one person's fault, it's a combination.

I gave Gettleman the bulk of the responsibility last season because the buck stops with him. He put the team in a pickle with questionable personnel decisions (starting with J-No), and everyone suffered. He gambled on the O-line's lack of depth and/or talent, and lost. He did the same thing to a lesser extent with the receiving corps. To G-man's credit, he has pretty much learned and tried to fix things this offseason. He has given Rivera and Shula what they need to turn the team around. In other words, he's doing his part, now the coaches have to do their thing.

Rivera needs to let competition reign. The term "competition" needs to be more than just rhetoric. He and Shula need to put their heads together and make sure the best players are getting first team reps and seeing the field regardless if they're vets or not. And if they are vets, they need to sit their butts down if they're not getting the job done on Sundays. Part of that is being fully willing to activate new blood on game days if the old guys are just going through the motions. Speaking of going through the motions, Rivera needs to force Shula to mix the play calls up when it's obviously evident that his regular game plan isn't working. Lack of situational awareness and a death grip on the status quo are my two main issues with Rivera and Shula.

As for Cam, he is going to have to work on his mechanics, going through his progressions and making the proper reads, and making good decisions. He is going to have to do these things with consistency. That's what the great ones do. He is going to have to trust all of his guys, and not lock on a couple of guys. I have said that his accuracy issues are overblown, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I've watched enough of Cam to know that he can do much better. He is simply going to have to be more consistent with his mechanics and decision making if he is going to get to the next level. If he wants to be that icon, he is going to have to do the things that the icons do. No excuses! And from the way things are shaping up this offseason, he won't have any excuses once he gets healthy. 

[stankowalski]

12 hours ago, Saca312 said:

For all you Shula defenders, this finally convince you he's the reason Cam Newton may never reach his full potential?

Nope.  There were a lot of good points here but you chose to bold the ones that fit's your argument.  Which isn't a bad thing but a bit disingenuous.  You yourself admit this offense had receivers that couldn't get separation and a patchwork O-line last year.  I think the O-line issues affected this offense more than anything else last year and it just snowballed from there.  On top of that we had problems in our secondary last year that helped to contribute to us playing from behind way too often.  

With that said, I think finally the front office is actually trying to help the offense out this year with the drafting of CMC, Moton, and Samuels.  CMC and Samuels should be able to get separation consistently which will give Newton some easier throws.  

[stankowalski]

44 minutes ago, EightyNine said:

I think the only people defending Shula are the ones who get tired of everyone putting SO MUCH blame on him.  They don't want to defend him but feel like they have to just to keep things reasonable around here.

That's kind of the deal with me.  I don't think Shula is great or terrible, I think he's somewhere in between and for people to ignore the issues with the players we have on offense and just heap all the blame on Shula seems a bit lazy.

[XClown1986]

God that replay of Ginn dropping that pass is brutal to watch.

[bigdog10]

Nice write up Saca. Appreciate your contributions to the huddle.

[punkpanther]

Because that was completely the focal point of this topic, wasn't it?

Why even say it then ? It has no bearing on the topic of the post.Nobody actually believes the NFL HATES Cam Newton . That's asinine. You fancy yourself some pseudo Panthers beat writer . You're not .


Sent from my iPhone using CarolinaHuddle

[Hogmolliesmaht]

On that first play you diagrammed, there are two other receivers who ran shorter routes and were more open than KB. Cam simply made a bad decision and got lucky on that one. In fact, you just pointed out Cam's flaws instead of bad play calling.

[Saca312]

2 hours ago, AU-panther said:

So what I got from the article is that Cam throws to receivers with no separation.  Maybe he should quit throwing to the covered receivers and throw to the open ones instead...just kidding....kind of.

In all seriousness, I don't think our system or receivers always makes Cam's job the easiest.  As far as Shula goes I don't think there are actually many defenders of him around here.  There are some that are more critical of Cam but I don't really see many people claiming Shula is one of the top offensive minds n the league.

This is one reason I was hoping we could have drafted Zay Jones.  I still think Cam needs that dependable, possession type of receiver that he can count on when he needs a first down.  Maybe Shepard can fill that role.

Don't get me wrong, I also thought we needed a deep threat, speed type of guy so I understand why we drafted Samuel.

Well to be fair, Samuel is also a reliable possession receiver. 3.2% drop rate and a clutch 3rd down receiver some argue is the best in his class.

[UpstatePanther]

13 hours ago, punkpanther said:

Stopped reading at "the NFL hates him" time to give it up with that poo already .


Sent from my iPhone using CarolinaHuddle

Well then you missed a great write up because you decided to be a dickhead

12 hours ago, Malt Liquor said:

So with Benjamin and Funchess not being able to get separation I wonder if there jobs is on the line now?

As much as I love them both and feel they have great potential, I hope so too.

9 hours ago, Udogg said:

Our slow plodding WR's can't get separation.  So all the quick routes every one talks about aren't open as well as the deep routes. 

Our Oline was garbage last year. 

The only receiver who can get separation drops a lot of footballs. 

And everyone acts like they didn't see Cam throw a lot of horrible passes last year.

But it's all Shula's fault...............................

 

 

 

 

 

I think you just made Saca's point for him. Cam threw a lot of horrible passes because his receivers couldn't separate, his OL couldn't protect him, his OC refused to scheme around these weaknesses, and our one quick receiver had butterfingers. Any QB in the league is gonna throw horrible passes if all that is happening at once.

3 hours ago, zacka77ack said:

Is Cam Newton accurate?

 

Camels may not fit through the eye of a needle but Cam can throw a football through one.

I love showing this play to people who say Cam isn't accurate. It's one of the most spectacular throws of his career, imho. Talk about a game of f*cking inches man.....

2 hours ago, AU-panther said:

This is one reason I was hoping we could have drafted Zay Jones.  I still think Cam needs that dependable, possession type of receiver that he can count on when he needs a first down.  Maybe Shepard can fill that role.

Perhaps. But I don't think Shepard is meant for that role. Truth be told, if Benji AND Funch bounce back like I fully expect them to, then they are the prototype possession receivers for Cam. McCaffrey and Samuel will take the pressure off them and allow them to be used in those possession situations where they can box out the corner for a crucial first down or touchdown. At least that's my hope. 

@Saca312 excellent write up friend. I really appreciate your work. It's always well thought out and detailed. F*ck the haters. Keep it up man. As someone else said, it's worlds better than anything we get from David Newton. :)

[TheRed]

Cam had some errant throws last year for sure, but he is a deadly accurate QB when you give him a clean pocket and time to throw. He has proven that throughout his career. He didn't just stumble into the MVP award in 2015.

Newton has also completed some of the most insane passes I've ever seen from any quarterback ever. There is no doubt in my mind that if our OL, RB's and WR's do their part, we can have one of the top offenses in the league with a stud like Cam behind center. It amazes me that some of our fans still don't truly appreciate our QB, and what he has done to revitalize our franchise.

[Udogg]

28 minutes ago, UpstatePanther said:

I think you just made Saca's point for him. Cam threw a lot of horrible passes because his receivers couldn't separate, his OL couldn't protect him, his OC refused to scheme around these weaknesses, and our one quick receiver had butterfingers. Any QB in the league is gonna throw horrible passes if all that is happening at once.

 

My point is .... how do you scheme with

OL that's horrible.  Our pro bowl center who made the line calls out.  Our starting LT is the RT that lost us a super bowl. 

WR's who can't get open or if they do they drop the balls, 

No running game (see offensive line). 

Teams stacking box due to all of the above. 

BTW... Cam throws some horrible passes sometimes with clean pockets and no one around him.... He throws 2 wtf passes every game. 

Love Cam to death but it is what it is.  However I agree mostly with the fact that his mechanics get horrible when his guard/center play goes poo poo.  Like most QB's. 

My point about this entire Shula thing is what magical scheme is Shula not using? When the Oline played decent we could at least get the ball down the field and teams had to respect Ginns speed.  With our Oline and Running game non existent, they just stacked the box in that modified cover 3 everyone likes to run.  As the year ran on, watch how teams played us.  They took a way all the slants,  only time safety shaded to any side of the field is when Ginn was in the game.  You have Funchess being jammed into oblivion, you got KB pouting when you don't throw into tight coverage.  You have teams running triangle coverage on Greg Olsen.   You have a bruising back being hit 1 yard behind the line of scrimmage, the only successful thing we could do was read option, and every time any team got a chance they aimed for Cam Newton's head or knees. 

I just don't understand these bash Shula post,  If we had weapons that weren't being used the ok.  Saying we should have played Ginn more and KB less, ...maybe.  Saying the offense should have kept their Olsen first everyone else second approach.... valid point.   The Shula sucks because Cam is great and that's the only reason Cam wasn't great drivel is stupid to me.  

There is plenty of blame to pass around and a good bit goes at Cam as well.  How many hits did he take when he should have checked down, how many underneath routes he ignored trying to go deep?  Why doesn't Rivera get any blame?  What about the fact that our defense was atrocious the first part of the year and forced us to try to play catch up or force things on offense? Most importantly, where is the Gettleman blame?  

 

Everyone was like people caught on to us?  

We got worse at WR.

We got worse at CB. 

We got worse at S. 

We got worse at LT

We got worse at RT,

We got worse at C. 

And our QB was probably concussed half the year, and injured the other half. 

WTF was Shula supposed to do?  I try to be an objective as possible when I watch the team.  I watch games all the time (#NFLGamepass4lif) ,  it's obvious what the problems are on offense, but I just don't see Shula as 90% of the problem as most on here seem to think.  Could he make better calls?  yeah in hindsight that's every OC.  But you guys put waaaayyy to much on him and him alone.   I mean look at OP. line bad, WR's bad,  Shula's fault? 

 

[ThPantherFan]

14 hours ago, RoosterCockburn said:

Making one big giant excuse for Cam. He makes the final play call. He makes the reads and decided where to go with the football. 

2015 was a year the defense made the offense look better than it was. It's time to move on.

No.

[CarolinaSamurai]

7 minutes ago, Udogg said:

My point is .... how do you scheme with

OL that's horrible.  Our pro bowl center who made the line calls out.  Our starting LT is the RT that lost us a super bowl. 

WR's who can't get open or if they do they drop the balls, 

No running game (see offensive line). 

Teams stacking box due to all of the above. 

BTW... Cam throws some horrible passes sometimes with clean pockets and no one around him.... He throws 2 wtf passes every game. 

Love Cam to death but it is what it is.  However I agree mostly with the fact that his mechanics get horrible when his guard/center play goes poo poo.  Like most QB's. 

My point about this entire Shula thing is what magical scheme is Shula not using? When the Oline played decent we could at least get the ball down the field and teams had to respect Ginns speed.  With our Oline and Running game non existent, they just stacked the box in that modified cover 3 everyone likes to run.  As the year ran on, watch how teams played us.  They took a way all the slants,  only time safety shaded to any side of the field is when Ginn was in the game.  You have Funchess being jammed into oblivion, you got KB pouting when you don't throw into tight coverage.  You have teams running triangle coverage on Greg Olsen.   You have a bruising back being hit 1 yard behind the line of scrimmage, the only successful thing we could do was read option, and every time any team got a chance they aimed for Cam Newton's head or knees. 

I just don't understand these bash Shula post,  If we had weapons that weren't being used the ok.  Saying we should have played Ginn more and KB less, ...maybe.  Saying the offense should have kept their Olsen first everyone else second approach.... valid point.   The Shula sucks because Cam is great and that's the only reason Cam wasn't great drivel is stupid to me.  

There is plenty of blame to pass around and a good bit goes at Cam as well.  How many hits did he take when he should have checked down, how many underneath routes he ignored trying to go deep?  Why doesn't Rivera get any blame?  What about the fact that our defense was atrocious the first part of the year and forced us to try to play catch up or force things on offense? Most importantly, where is the Gettleman blame?  

 

Everyone was like people caught on to us?  

We got worse at WR.

We got worse at CB. 

We got worse at S. 

We got worse at LT

We got worse at RT,

We got worse at C. 

And our QB was probably concussed half the year, and injured the other half. 

WTF was Shula supposed to do?  I try to be an objective as possible when I watch the team.  I watch games all the time (#NFLGamepass4lif) ,  it's obvious what the problems are on offense, but I just don't see Shula as 90% of the problem as most on here seem to think.  Could he make better calls?  yeah in hindsight that's every OC.  But you guys put waaaayyy to much on him and him alone.   I mean look at OP. line bad, WR's bad,  Shula's fault? 

 

My biggest issue is that the play calls fall directly to Ron and Shula. Even with all the issues you mentioned we kept running the same plays without any wrinkles or changes to minimize our weaknesses. As a coordinator you have to adjust to what your given. I don't expect him to make poop into gold but at least have the vision to know you gotta change things some. Granted he did add some good short quick out plays that actually worked at the end of the season but at that point it was to little to late. 

This is Shula's entire career though were as I think Ron gets a pass bc he's known for D not O. Shula every year of his career as a OC in both here and TB he sucks at adjusting to wrinkles due to injury, player performance, Defensive adjustments and that was shown on the biggest stage in the world the SB. If your big back gets hurt you don't just run the same fing plays with a different smaller or inexperienced guy expecting the same result. 

Maybe it's Ron holding Shula back or Cam unable to learn a new play but that argument flyies out the window when Shula did the same exact things in TBay with different staff and QB. 

I agree parts of our offense can be problematic due to Ron and Cam but with a better OC we would have a better chance. Right now unless Shula changes that chance is lower, not impossible, but lower. As for me I'd rather give the team the best chance to win every season and Shula going away would increase those odds.

[UpstatePanther]

@Udogg I hear you. Shula definitely catches undue scapegoat flack at times. He certainly had a tough road to plow in 2016 with all the other problems. That being said, I think Saca's point was that Shula doubled down on what was already wrong and expected Cam to just cope. He didn't try to tweak anything, come hell or high water (and both came in 2016). And that's always been one of my biggest criticisms of Shula: his stubbornness adherence to his philosophy. If your tools change or stop working altogether, you have to learn how to make it work a different way. And Shula has seemed incapable of doing that. So Gettleman solved the problem by getting him new tools. 

I definitely hear you about Cams WTF passes. I went to every home game and Atlanta last season. I saw it for myself. They do happen. But id be willing to bet it doesn't happen any more than the other elite QBs in the league. They're still human beings and they're gonna make a bad call once in a while. That being said, two bad judgments per game does not explain why Cam is perceived as inaccurate