So If Fournette Is The Pick In The First Round....

[t96]

45 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

My only response to what you just said is this:  Mike Shula is our offensive coordinator.  What do YOU think his response will be to drafting a nice, shiny new running back?

I've said this before, I'll say it again: I cannot comprehend the logical disconnect being experienced right now by the subset of known Shula critics that I easily recognize that are also incredibly eager to draft Leonard Fournette.

People can change and Shula can too, especially when Rivera is basically forcing him to adjust and putting his job on the line for it. And more importantly, you don't not draft a player because of an OC who could very possibly be gone 1 year into said player's campaign.

All we've heard this offseason about the offense is that it's going to evolve and we're going to go to more of a power based run offense without the read option and without relying on Cam running. Rivera is putting his job on the line for Shula and he's the one behind this evolution, and we've seen what Rivera does when his job is on the line (2013 after Bills loss...). Fournette fits with this vision perfectly and would be the best thing we could do to see this to fruition. 

Of course Shula's play calling and design is a concern to some degree, but the bigger picture of our offensive identity, Fournette fits perfectly and would definitely help. If it results in success, then great. If not, then Shula's gone and we have Fournette in place for DG's handpicked coaching staff.

If you want to argue whether drafting a HB at 8 is a good idea, then I completely understand that point of view and respect that viewpoint. But you can't question Fournette's fit here.

[t96]

26 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Given Shula successfully revamped the whole run game in 2015 to make up for losing Benjamin, I think he can surely incorporate a power running game into the offense given that is his more familiar formation. The read option he learned from Chud. That is not his preferred setup. He is doing it for Cam's benefit since what we play is designed for what Cam is most used to running. Since the refs made it open headhunting season on Cam, it will be easy to go back to a power running scheme

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Shula didn't revamp our run game in '15 based on KB's injury at all. That notion is absurd. KB was hurt well into training camp, our offense was set by then. Changed some little things, but no "revamp."

[thennek]

If the Panthers return to a power running game offense, we all better hope that Matt Kalil is the real deal at LT, and Oher can still play RT. I don't care how talented a RB is if you don't have an offensive line that can effectively block. Don't forget, the majority of the Panthers offensive woes last year we're due to an ineffective offensive line.

That 2008 O-Line that blocked so Williams and Stew could run for a zillion yards....that O-Line was really good! If the 2017 O-Line is even in the ballpark of being that good the Panthers will have a great offense this year no matter who is running the ball.


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[AU-panther]

7 hours ago, Doc Holiday said:

Its not an idea, its factual its something that has been long proven to work, just watch the 2008 panthers for the last time we used this to great effect, jake was terrible that year, but we still ended up the 2 seed in the NFC because of Stew and Williams. Or for a much more recent reference the 2016 cowboys, Prescott isnt half the player he was last year without Elliot and a lot of teams have taken notice.

Its why there is a bidding war for Fournette, do you think teams would be considering throwing away their entire draft for something that doesn't work? hardly, if anything I consider a solid running game a much more predicable and reliable method of QB protection.

2008? really...how many RBs have gone in top 10 since then

Bidding war...internet rumor about us and Cincy?  I've also heard rumors about a lot of teams wanting to trade down in the top 10.  Does that man that outside of Garrett nobody is worthy of a top 10 pick?

Either way I'm not saying we shouldn't pick Fournette or that he wouldn't help Cam in some ways. 

Would he potentially reduce the number of rushing carries for Cam each game?  Of course he would

Would a better running game help our offense? of course it would, it would any team

My concern is that we could potentially become more conservative and predictable which in some ways could make life harder on Cam.

Asking Cam to consistently throw into tight windows on third and long isn't necessarily helping him either.  Cam could use some playmakers around him that help to make life easier on him.  Some receivers that can get open or some diversity on 1st and 2nd down. 

Brady is protected by not only their quick passing attack but also the fear that teams have about blitzing him.  Teams aren't afraid to blitz us.  Its not like adding Fournette is going to cause teams to play us any different.  Teams already load up on the run against us.

Fan and coaches to some extent can think to simplistic in all of this, "if we run the ball more than Cam will get hit less" - no kidding.  Staying out of 2nd and long and 3rd and long will also cut down on Cam getting hit less.  How you go about staying out of those predictable passing situations is the question. By continuing to do what we've been doing, just with a Fournette instead of Stewart.  Maybe it will work.

A lot of people are afraid that Shula wouldn't know what to do with McCaffrey, I'm actually nervous that our staff thinks they know what to do with Fournette.

 

 

 

 

[tiger7_88]

46 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

2008? really...how many RBs have gone in top 10 since then

Bidding war...internet rumor about us and Cincy?  I've also heard rumors about a lot of teams wanting to trade down in the top 10.  Does that man that outside of Garrett nobody is worthy of a top 10 pick?

Either way I'm not saying we shouldn't pick Fournette or that he wouldn't help Cam in some ways. 

Would he potentially reduce the number of rushing carries for Cam each game?  Of course he would

Would a better running game help our offense? of course it would, it would any team

My concern is that we could potentially become more conservative and predictable which in some ways could make life harder on Cam.

Asking Cam to consistently throw into tight windows on third and long isn't necessarily helping him either.  Cam could use some playmakers around him that help to make life easier on him.  Some receivers that can get open or some diversity on 1st and 2nd down. 

Brady is protected by not only their quick passing attack but also the fear that teams have about blitzing him.  Teams aren't afraid to blitz us.  Its not like adding Fournette is going to cause teams to play us any different.  Teams already load up on the run against us.

Fan and coaches to some extent can think to simplistic in all of this, "if we run the ball more than Cam will get hit less" - no kidding.  Staying out of 2nd and long and 3rd and long will also cut down on Cam getting hit less.  How you go about staying out of those predictable passing situations is the question. By continuing to do what we've been doing, just with a Fournette instead of Stewart.  Maybe it will work.

A lot of people are afraid that Shula wouldn't know what to do with McCaffrey, I'm actually nervous that our staff thinks they know what to do with Fournette.

You've personally encapsulated my exact thoughts.

Thank you.

[RumHam]

11 hours ago, Kevin Greene said:

Life post selecting Leonard Fournette #8, #2 or wherever it may be. 

What does Shula do calling plays Sunday? Even more Read Option plays for Cam and the new RB than in past years?

Can Shula resist the temptation to beat his opponents Sundays not by play design but based on the belief physically his players are superior to the defense? The toll on Cam Newton be damned? 

Could Leonard Fournette be the worst possible pick for Cam Newton's longevity moving forward?

EXACTLY.

It'll be more of the same and a waste of a draft pick if Shula is still our guy. Why I think Dalvin Cook would be a good fit b/c he simply runs. 

[MechaZain]

If we draft Fournette Shula's evolution depends on what happens at TE, because the only change coming from Stewart would probably be a heavier load. The team's already moving away from scrambling Cam. 

[MechaZain]

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

EXACTLY.

It'll be more of the same and a waste of a draft pick if Shula is still our guy. Why I think Dalvin Cook would be a good fit b/c he simply runs. 

If anyone in this draft class "simply runs" it's Fournette. 

[KillerKat]

Zebra doesn't change his stripes. Expect runs up the middle on 1st and 2nd down, then a failed 50 yard bomb pass call followed by a punt.

[panthers55]

So what you're saying is that Shula will be re-introducing the kind of offense for which he experienced so much success earlier in his career?
[emoji14]

No I am saying he is very familiar with any running scheme and will have no problem moving us to more of a power game. How successful we will be depends on the offensive line to block effectively and for Gettleman to bring in more offensive weapons so teams don't load the box with 8 defenders all day. But thank you for playing....

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[panthers55]

Shula didn't revamp our run game in '15 based on KB's injury at all. That notion is absurd. KB was hurt well into training camp, our offense was set by then. Changed some little things, but no "revamp."

Of so all the analysts and folks showing how complex our running game was in 2015 were absurd and you somehow know better than all of them. The offense did change a bunch and if you didn't recognize that then this convo is wasted. Sorry if I believe all of the numerous experts over you.

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[panthers55]

2008? really...how many RBs have gone in top 10 since then
Bidding war...internet rumor about us and Cincy?  I've also heard rumors about a lot of teams wanting to trade down in the top 10.  Does that man that outside of Garrett nobody is worthy of a top 10 pick?
Either way I'm not saying we shouldn't pick Fournette or that he wouldn't help Cam in some ways. 
Would he potentially reduce the number of rushing carries for Cam each game?  Of course he would
Would a better running game help our offense? of course it would, it would any team
My concern is that we could potentially become more conservative and predictable which in some ways could make life harder on Cam.
Asking Cam to consistently throw into tight windows on third and long isn't necessarily helping him either.  Cam could use some playmakers around him that help to make life easier on him.  Some receivers that can get open or some diversity on 1st and 2nd down. 
Brady is protected by not only their quick passing attack but also the fear that teams have about blitzing him.  Teams aren't afraid to blitz us.  Its not like adding Fournette is going to cause teams to play us any different.  Teams already load up on the run against us.
Fan and coaches to some extent can think to simplistic in all of this, "if we run the ball more than Cam will get hit less" - no kidding.  Staying out of 2nd and long and 3rd and long will also cut down on Cam getting hit less.  How you go about staying out of those predictable passing situations is the question. By continuing to do what we've been doing, just with a Fournette instead of Stewart.  Maybe it will work.
A lot of people are afraid that Shula wouldn't know what to do with McCaffrey, I'm actually nervous that our staff thinks they know what to do with Fournette.
 
 
 
 

Your premise assume that we run the power game and don't change the offense and bring in more offensive personnel. I actually like McCaffrey more than Fournette at this point but I also expect us to draft a tight end in the first 3 rounds and a WR who can replace Ginn. So I hope the running game is part of the evolution that needs to include the passing game as well.

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[panthers55]

Did anyone catch Gettleman saying he thinks Fournette has good hands and will be used as a receiver especially out of the backfield.

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[t96]

5 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Of so all the analysts and folks showing how complex our running game was in 2015 were absurd and you somehow know better than all of them. The offense did change a bunch and if you didn't recognize that then this convo is wasted. Sorry if I believe all of the numerous experts over you.

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Our running game was complex in 2014 too.