OJ Howard is a Huge Cam fan

[rico6]

Return of the 2 TE set please

[Snake]

20 hours ago, Saca312 said:

Only reason I wouldn't like Howard is because of value and how he doesn't seem to have that high of a ceiling in comparison to other TEs we could grab.

Nevertheless, most complete TE from this class, so I guess it's justifiable. He's pretty basic from a skills standpoint, but I'm more or less accepting the fact that if Fournette, Thomas, and Adams don't fall, he's probably (sadly) our next option.

Um not that high of ceiling? Kid was used in a run first offense and still was productive in the SEC. I would agree if there system was a gimmicky spread but it wasn't. Every other TE behind him has a downfall. Howard doesn't and is why he may not even make it to us at 8. 

[Roebling]

15 hours ago, Promethean Forerunner said:

Please show me that he has the highest ceiling.

No one in here ever addresses the deficiencies and red flags with Howard but proclaim him the best TE prospect in a decade.

I agree, it's a jump to say best TE in the past decade. It's also all speculation who is the best prospect in any position. You were just saying that he didn't have the highest ceiling without providing any reasoning, when most analysts say that execs view him as the best TE. To claim otherwise and to state it as a fact that we should all agree with is a little obtuse. 

[emhoward]

35 minutes ago, Promethean Forerunner said:

I already have multiple times. I'll state my reasoning for why Howard is the most overrated TE prospect in years. And what's funny is most of these concerns with Howard are documented by scouts themselves but ignore because of his athleticism and two monstrous games against Clemson.

1.) Howard lacks lower body power (his below average vertical and broad jumps are an indication of his limitations in blocking NFL level DL too). 

2.) Howard's route running and route tree are not what they're barked up to be. Alabama didn't use him much in their scheme. Why? That's another story. As Waldman and Young have alluded to, Howard was in a system that got him open looks and when he is utilized Alabama only used him for seams, curls and shallow routes.

3.) Howard lost starting/playing snaps from his sophomore season to his senior season. Now, if you're a weapon and a great blocker, you shouldn't be losing snaps. Saban is not the type NOT to exploit your talents. So that's a legitimate red flag. 

4.) Howard's demeanor was talked about during the scouting process. They specifically stated that his tentative/passive attitude is a little concerning when talking about him longterm since he may not love football. He got ripped on by the Senior Bowl coaching staff for it. This isn't speculation, he allows himself to be taken out by smaller defenders who are aggressive frequently.

5.) Howard provides almost zero YAC production. The guy can run really fast for a 6'6", 250 lb TE but once any defender touches him, he goes down easily and without much a fight. If you can't stiff arm or fend off a 5'8", 181 lb DB, then I'd be severely worried at the next level.

Convincing. Good write up.

[Roebling]

1 hour ago, Promethean Forerunner said:

I already have multiple times. I'll state my reasoning for why Howard is the most overrated TE prospect in years. And what's funny is most of these concerns with Howard are documented by scouts themselves but ignore because of his athleticism and two monstrous games against Clemson.

1.) Howard lacks lower body power (his below average vertical and broad jumps are an indication of his limitations in blocking NFL level DL too). 

2.) Howard's route running and route tree are not what they're barked up to be. Alabama didn't use him much in their scheme. Why? That's another story. As Waldman and Young have alluded to, Howard was in a system that got him open looks and when he is utilized Alabama only used him for seams, curls and shallow routes.

3.) Howard lost starting/playing snaps from his sophomore season to his senior season. Now, if you're a weapon and a great blocker, you shouldn't be losing snaps. Saban is not the type NOT to exploit your talents. So that's a legitimate red flag. 

4.) Howard's demeanor was talked about during the scouting process. They specifically stated that his tentative/passive attitude is a little concerning when talking about him longterm since he may not love football. He got ripped on by the Senior Bowl coaching staff for it. This isn't speculation, he allows himself to be taken out by smaller defenders who are aggressive frequently.

5.) Howard provides almost zero YAC production. The guy can run really fast for a 6'6", 250 lb TE but once any defender touches him, he goes down easily and without much a fight. If you can't stiff arm or fend off a 5'8", 181 lb DB, then I'd be severely worried at the next level.

1. Fair, but he is known as a good blocker. That's one of the things scouts seem to all agree upon. The lack of numbers is true, but the film has said differently. But point taken.

2. Knew this, but I wasn't overly concerned. I think most TE's will need some help here. But, at the very least, he's a seam buster and that would really help for us.

3. Yea, I don't know enough about that, but I wonder if that was simply a Kiffin thing (as I see a lot) or if it was using a TE less? Was another TE in there in his place?
4. I didn't see this anywhere? Source?

5. Couldn't find the stats. Seems like it's not as well documented at the college level.

I'm not sure if he is overrated, but, compared to Ebron, he doesn't seem to be measurably THAT much better. 

Overall, you bring up valid points. Thanks.

[Saca312]

18 hours ago, Promethean Forerunner said:

Please show me that he has the highest ceiling.

No one in here ever addresses the deficiencies and red flags with Howard but proclaim him the best TE prospect in a decade.

The irony is he's probably the most raw receiving TE coming out.

[KillerKat]

We should've drafted Hunter Henry so we wouldn't have to think about this right now.

[Saca312]

10 minutes ago, Roebling said:

4. I didn't see this anywhere? Source?

https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2017/01/26/2017-senior-bowl-practice-wrap-offense/

Quote

TE O.J. Howard, Alabama: A false start penalty, multiple dropped passes, poor effort on a catch able target, and lining up with a stance that you’d think would have been addressed at Alabama were among the things that confirmed my concerns about Howard on tape. Howard is the most impressive athlete at the position in Mobile, but his approach to the game is a detriment to his ability.

And around 56:00 in here:

They talk how Browns coaching staff ripped OJ Howard.

[Ace_Aladdin]

3 hours ago, Saca312 said:

https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2017/01/26/2017-senior-bowl-practice-wrap-offense/

And around 56:00 in here:

They talk how Browns coaching staff ripped OJ Howard.

@Saca312  This debate is irrelevant, I already proved he is the best TE in this draft and in recent eyars.

@KillerKat

@Hoenheim

@Kakarot

@KB_fan

3 hours ago, Saca312 said:

The irony is he's probably the most raw receiving TE coming out.

 

@Saca312 Please stopping spreading fals propaganda.

 

[Ace_Aladdin]

On 4/22/2017 at 2:12 PM, TheSpecialJuan said:

Well that settles it: we're taking OJ Howard at 8

More like in the middle of 1st, with 3 QBs likely going in the 1st there will be drop of talent. 

Panthers will trade the two 2nd round picks and get either McCaffrey or OJ Howard.