OJ Howard or Christian McCaffrey

[Saca312]

@Promethean Forerunner Still to this day, no one has given me film evidence that shows Howard willbe a monster in the NFL.

No one.

At this point everyone is hoping for something that hasn't proved to exist in the past. It's mind boggling that people can't assume we can take a solid TE later for much better value than waste our #8 pick on one.

[steven8989]

They going to get Fournette/Njoku or McCaffrey/Njoku

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[csx]

I'm not a big proponent of Howard. However, regardless of whatever Shulas limitations are it doesn't take an offensive mastermind to comprehend what to do with an other TE. Dixon isn't featured on purpose. He's JAG minus.

[Marguide]

I would be happy with either. Slight edge to CM.

Hopefully, someone slips a roofie to Dave so he doesn't pick another DT.

[WilliamB24]

Honestly, I don't think we can go wrong here. We win no matter who we pick.

I would rather have another pass catching TE, instead of a jack of all trades. 
 
No offense to JOAT.

Knowing our luck, we will end up with neither

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[t96]

4 hours ago, Carolina Cajun said:

upgrade at pass catching/3rd down back, slot receiver, and returner.  he is better than anything we have on the roster at any of those positions.

Okay first, he can't play both slot receiver and HB full time. Would fill one of those two needs or half of both if he splits time which still leaves a need for the other half of the time in both positions. And ideally someone you take at 8 turns into an all pro at his position. Most all pros with return ability don't stay on ST for long if they're great at their position. And returner isn't the need on ST. It's coaching. One need, not three. Use logic.

[micnificent28]

McCaffery really doesn't fill a single need. He's a jack of all trades master of none. He's not a full time carry the work load back at 202 pounds. If we draft him at 8 we would still need to find a brusier at some point this year or next to carry the bulk of the between the tackles goaline carries. so he would kinda be a spell back for stew this year. his ability to play the slot is great and i cant find really a flaw in that logic but is he the best slot availible at 8 or even in our second round pick? Guy is a great kick/punt returner but thats not why u draft him at 8. Lets stop with this White reggie bush at 8 talk.

[Lasus83.]

Howard....

He helps cam much more than McCaffrey

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[Adb6368]

Both of these picks are pretty blah to me. You can convince me both of these players will help us be a better team but neither make me feel like they are the difference between a win or a loss in the super bowl like fournette or one of the safeties would


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[Saca312]

@thomas96 if all top 10 picks were all pros, then what are busts?

McCaffrey's the safest pick of the bunch, and would impact our offense tremendously. Don't have to be an "all-pro" when you're a weapon utilized in many different looks, designs, and ways in an offense. 

Look at it this way. You argue that splitting time at RB and WR is a bad thing in comparison to a one-dimensional pure RB, yet don't account for the fact the defense has to figure out if we're using him as a WR or RB. 

For example, we insert a powerback like Perine who can act as a fullback in a sense, with a look at McCaffrey at WR. Switch it up real quick with Perine as the lead blocker and McCaffrey behind. We could also let that play go as is, with McCaffrey as a slot threat and Perine as our main runner with the threat of Cam as well. That's a play we could use to fool defenses.

Versatility and ways to evolve an offense do more wonders than simply assuming a player has to be a specific "all-pro." It's why NE has so much success in how they have role players who ensure the team's success than their own glory.

I'll take a player that'll impact our offense the most in a change of way it functions and call it a success, even if they never become an all pro.

[Troys99x3]

If Barnett is on the board at 8 he will be the pick over these two... 

[Saca312]

As for Howard. I want to bring up Brett's video ( @Cracka McNasty's favorite draft dude) as a starting point for another argument.

The dude would make a good salesman. His explanation seemed great, but it does not point out the fact he's a weapon that should've been utilized, but not. If he were so rare in talent and amazing, why would said coach - known to bring the best out of every player - limit him, as @Promethean Forerunner mentioned before?

Because the rest of the offense is inept? That excuse lacks basis, as you see Fournette being the focal point of a talent depleted offense. If Howard is your supposed best offensive player, why limit him so much as he was?

If your offense as a whole isn't up to par, you scheme around your best player. Sure, could argue their QB was schemed around to allow him to run, but that doesn't excuse the fact Howard is theoretically their supposed "best weapon" who was never used the way he supposedly should've.

And that's the thing. If he wasn't used to his "fullest," and if he truly were a superstar, why did Alabama not scheme around him? Is he limited in some way to hide his deficiencies? Is there a weakness somewhere that's yet to be exploited of him? Is he limited in experience or route running to the point he's just forced on basic fundamental routes and concepts?

This is why he is a projection, not a sure talent. His athleticism and base seem good on paper, but he will be a project if he were to break the "glass ceiling" and achieve the stardom status many are propping him with. 

Njoku, Engram, and Hodges can be argued as the more NFL ready "TEs" as far as big play-making ability. Their talent is already proven in film. They can catch, run solid route concepts that Howard has never shown, and make plays on the ball that Howard hasn't. They only fall behind in blocking, and that's mainly due to frame. 

Njoku already has shown proper form when blocking, with Miami comfortable enough to even utilize him as a blocking TE on power plays in short yardage/goal line situations. He bulks up to his frame's potential, fits with the right team, and progress through his early stages, he'll be a solid blocker by the end of his rookie season and theoretically be a better player than Howard at that point due to Njoku's advantage in experience and ability in the passing game.

Howard has a lower span of adjusting to NFL blocking with his experience, but he'll have to prove and attempt to change his game to be a threat and show he's a better TE. He may be more complete in respect to his solid base going in the NFL, but he'll lag behind guys like Njoku due to his limited experience and ability in the passing game.

That's the issue. Consider him in a way like a finished model kit. Howard is like a complete set. He has the basic fundamentals of blocking down well, and showcases the ability to catch. How to play TE101 is effectively completed, as Howard comes in complete as a basic TE.

You come out happy because he's a ready model from day one. You hope to be able to enter this Howard model into a nationwide competition, where the judging is rigorous and the playing field rough. Each model is expected to stand out from each

However, there's a catch. You don't have any additional model pieces to build off of the finished model, and the competition strives for the best. You can buy the expansion pack that allows you to expand on his form, but it is a project. You have to expand on him with the extra effort and time from the expansion pack, and hope it sticks.

The issue is, this expansion pack is generic; it isn't from the same brand company itself. It was made due to a noticed demand in the need for Howard the model to become better, but it was hastily made. The company did not prepare the Howard set with the extra components needed to stand out at this competition.

The competition begins tomorrow, yet you don't have much time to improvise, and you know it. You have a finished model that doesn't have much room to expand because the model was not given the materials and tools to allow it to expand.

A very stretchy and sluggish (bad) analogy - I know - but it still shows how Howard isn't equipped from college with all the tools to expand. His route tree, his pass catching ability, and use as a threat are all hindered in comparison to Njoku and other TEs. 

Howard is the finished product, but Njoku and other TEs are the ones who have their manufacturers provide them with expansion kits alongside the model so the owner can easily expand and fit concepts just as they desire with ease.

Howard has a better foundation, but not that high of a ceiling. That's what makes him a probable disappointment in the NFL.

 

[Swagitude]

OJ. He can also block so if you need help blocking, hold him back to block. He can also be a great reciever. Mccaffery is overhyped. Plus running backs are easily replaceable. We can get the same production from a 5th round running back as we can from a top 5 pick. Last year zeke and jordan howard were 1st and 2nd in the league.


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[davos]

OJ makes me a bit cautious but I'd be happy with both.