How early would you draft players with injury/character issues?

[Sasquatch]

On 4/14/2017 at 11:06 AM, top dawg said:

Plenty of respectable American blue bloods have done pot, so let's get that out of the way. I doubt that "most folks" have ever smoked, much less pot, but in the grand scheme of things, it is arguably better than nicotine or alcohol. It's certainly no worse. Plenty of "law abiding" citizens, especially around these parts, put prohibition in it's proper perspective, and that's why it no longer exists.

As for illegal guns, of course most people don't ride around with them, but there are large subcultures within this country where it's unfortunately a part of life. If you are an ignorant kid who comes from a place where that's what you know, and that's what you think you need to protect yourself, and for whatever reasons you think that you can't obtain a gun legally (or maybe it just didn't cross your mind as a matter of course), then you do what you feel you need to do to protect yourself. I'm not saying it's right, but it is what it is. Sometimes forces start working against you as soon as you come out of the womb. 

If my daughter were stupid enough to get all up into a man's face and actually physically assault his body, amid just acting ugly and throwing around insults (possibly of a racial nature), no, I wouldn't want a guy to knock her out, but I would understand how it happened. I wouldn't like it at all, but after analyzing the situation and determining that the guy didn't have a history of violence, and was actually known as a pretty good guy, I'd just have to let it go. I'd probably beseech my daughter to keep herself out of that situation in the future, much less egg it on. The girl was NOT innocent here, regardless if she naturally got the worst of it. Even when you're a woman, sometimes if you act like an ass, you're going to get more than you bargain for, especially if you buck up against the wrong woman, much less a man. A lot of times, bad behavior begets even worse bad behavior.

 

Like I said, in both instances, there is no history of either being reprobates. Both were stupid, but one was heat of the moment and hadn't happened up until that point, or since. Even high character guys can have a moment given the right (wrong) situation.

 

Pot may be "arguably better than nicotine or alcohol" but it is against the NFL rules and results in suspensions. Teams must determine if they're willing to accept an unexpected "vacation" at an inopportune time.

There are uses for guns. You can carry them as wanted within the law. Many do. It's really not that hard and worth the effort to anybody who has a legitimate desire to protect himself or his family.

The rest is making excuses for behaviors which should be inexcusable.

[Sasquatch]

To the OP,

Injury concerns - trust your medical staff's evaluation. 

Character concerns - trust your gut. If you have concerns, he's not the best player available.

 

[top dawg]

4 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

Pot may be "arguably better than nicotine or alcohol" but it is against the NFL rules and results in suspensions. Teams must determine if they're willing to accept an unexpected "vacation" at an inopportune time.

There are uses for guns. You can carry them as wanted within the law. Many do. It's really not that hard and worth the effort to anybody who has a legitimate desire to protect himself or his family.

The rest is making excuses for behaviors which should be inexcusable.

Yeah, maybe. There are a lot of behaviors that are inexcusable, it's just that some people within their ivory towers have decided to draw lines in the sand---usually to their benefit and to the detriment of others---as to which ones are legal or illegal, acceptable or unacceptable, good or bad. And, yes, these behaviors are "inexcusable" too, but some people---many people---just turn a blind eye to them every single day of their lives. 

People by their very nature are imperfect and are going to do things wrong---sin. The most famous book in the world, the Holy Bible, says that sin is sin. What it doesn't say is that all sins are equal. They aren't. The Bible also speaks of judging a tree by the fruit it bears, and speaks of redemption and forgiveness. So at different points of our lives we are going to determine some things about people, and make some choices about how "wrong" they really are. I'm not ready to lock the cell and throw away the key on kids for doing what Cam Robinson or Joe Mixon did, and it's as simple as that, whether you agree with it or not. There is no pattern of them being reprobates before or after they made a bad decision. No excuses, just facts. 

 

 

[Sasquatch]

6 hours ago, top dawg said:

Yeah, maybe. There are a lot of behaviors that are inexcusable, it's just that some people within their ivory towers have decided to draw lines in the sand---usually to their benefit and to the detriment of others---as to which ones are legal or illegal, acceptable or unacceptable, good or bad. And, yes, these behaviors are "inexcusable" too, but some people---many people---just turn a blind eye to them every single day of their lives. 

People by their very nature are imperfect and are going to do things wrong---sin. The most famous book in the world, the Holy Bible, says that sin is sin. What it doesn't say is that all sins are equal. They aren't. The Bible also speaks of judging a tree by the fruit it bears, and speaks of redemption and forgiveness. So at different points of our lives we are going to determine some things about people, and make some choices about how "wrong" they really are. I'm not ready to lock the cell and throw away the key on kids for doing what Cam Robinson or Joe Mixon did, and it's as simple as that, whether you agree with it or not. There is no pattern of them being reprobates before or after they made a bad decision. No excuses, just facts. 

 

 

What?

Nobody is talking of crucifying any draft prospect. Owner's or their representatives are making decisions on who to hire or "draft". They are the ones that get to determine what factors into their perceived risk or value associated with each candidate. You've heard it before, IT'S A BUSINESS. They get the benefits and pay the price when wrong. Current trends for guaranteed money in player contracts make being wrong cost millions. 

[top dawg]

4 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

What?

Nobody is talking of crucifying any draft prospect. Owner's or their representatives are making decisions on who to hire or "draft". They are the ones that get to determine what factors into their perceived risk or value associated with each candidate. You've heard it before, IT'S A BUSINESS. They get the benefits and pay the price when wrong. Current trends for guaranteed money in player contracts make being wrong cost millions. 

I have recently said something similar in another thread. Even in this very thread, I said that the lower someone falls, the lower the risk to my wallet. This thread took a turn into more than just about the business side of the game though. It may seem ostensibly about business, but some message boarders are talking about something else, and most people realize it.

[shaqattaq]

On 4/14/2017 at 10:17 AM, top dawg said:

I think that Robinson's and Mixon's character concerns are overblown. Unlike Westbrook and Cook, they don't have a history. I feel that that matters, and I feel that it should matter to everyone. But...we all have our lines in the sand.

Agreed. If we get both in the 2nd (assuming we don't go RB in the 1st) I would be stoked. Both have 1st round talent.  

[Sasquatch]

17 hours ago, top dawg said:

I have recently said something similar in another thread. Even in this very thread, I said that the lower someone falls, the lower the risk to my wallet. This thread took a turn into more than just about the business side of the game though. It may seem ostensibly about business, but some message boarders are talking about something else, and most people realize it.

I hate to break it to you but the business part is the NFL. If you're just talking about playing football, meet them at the sandlot and have at it if you're so inclined. The OP started with "if you all were GMs for the Panthers where would you draft these prospects" which pretty much locks it into a business decision. Your wallet comment, yeah sure, it'll cost a little less up front, but you add a bunch of idiots and thugs who keep their name in the news in a negative way,you'll probably hear about it again during TV contract negotiations just like the networks will hear it during sponsorship rate discussions.

As for your comment that only those with repeat arrests have a history, the only true history that could be claimed is the history of getting caught. It would not be wise to believe that these guys had enormously bad luck and got caught on the very first time they engaged in improper behavior. We know these guys likely have been doing this stuff for a while or escalating to it. As soon as they convince themselves it was just bad luck, they'll be right back at it. It also would be nice to expect that all learn from their first bad experience, but that just isn't the case either. Investing the money required with any more than the slightest risk is not a good idea.