Some notes from my source

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, csx said:

Just to play devil's advocate. The Broncos picked Miller, got a veteran qb and won a super bowl with 4 consecutive 12+ win seasons.

Is Peyton Manning a free agent this year? The moment Tony Romo announced his retirement, that option went out the window. Plus, no decent vet QB with other options is going to Cleveland. They'd be going to a Denver or Houston where they could legitimately compete for a shot at a SB. Cleveland is still a couple years of good roster moves away from being legit contenders. They were among the league's worst in nearly every category last year. No vet QB worth having is walking into that situation.

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, csx said:

Not suggesting that. I'm suggesting Leonard might not be that effective here this season and might get damaged before we build the type of system he needs. I don't see him as a slam dunk with who we have and what we do. You can invest much less in a battering ram if that's what you want.

I think he'd be better than Stew day one. My concern is if Rivera would play him enough early? Keep Stew as the starter, fine. But as Fournette got more and more comfortable he should be getting the lion's share of the carries IMO.

[top dawg]

5 minutes ago, csx said:

In my very amateur opinion, if we don't have good run blocking line and an effective fullback then Leonard might not have a significant effect. 

Darrel Young has been an effective FB. He's not chopped liver if that's what people think. He became a casualty in DC because of the Skins' system. The FB position has generally lost its value for most teams. I suspect that we'll be looking for options in and immediately after this draft for a longer term answer at the position. I still believe that we have Rockhead Johnson as well.

As for the O-line, we'll just have to wait and see. It was middle of the pack last season. Play calling and another legit pass catcher (or two) should open to things up on that front. I think that people may be underestimating Fournette's ability to handle eight man fronts as well. He certainly did in college. He is a brute with breakaway speed.

One last thing to remember is that it's not like the O-line stays static from year to year. If it sucks this season (which I seriously doubt), then we will build upon and improve it next year. I mean do you really pass over an extremely talented player just because other pieces may not be in place at the time? I wouldn't, but that's me. You put the pieces around him if need be.

[MrBubba]

If and that's a big 'if' multiple quarterbacks go top ten, have to think Browns would be calling Gettleman regarding a trade.  Four spots for perhaps an additional second would be enticing.  

[The Lobo]

15 minutes ago, csx said:

Just to play devil's advocate. The Broncos picked Miller, got a veteran qb and won a super bowl with 4 consecutive 12+ win seasons.

Well that veteran qb was one of the greatest of all time, so that helps. The years before their sb win Manning was incredible. We wouldn't have a chance to land someone like manning. At that time there weren't any qbs like manning as veterans right? If we had taken Miller, would we have three division titles and a sb appearance?

[top dawg]

11 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I think he'd be better than Stew day one. My concern is if Rivera would play him enough early? Keep Stew as the starter, fine. But as Fournette got more and more comfortable he should be getting the lion's share of the carries IMO.

He probably won't be as complete a back as Stew from day one. Everyone knows that he will be the heir apparent. No need to rush him until it's time.

I don't think that Rivera would hold him back if he's obviously that much better. But I also don't think that Stew is going to go away quietly.

[csx]

I just don't want to jump at Darren McFadden and wish we had waited for Forte or Jamal Charles....even Stewart.

We see these big name SEC running backs disappoint in the NFL every year.

[top dawg]

28 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Perine is nowhere close to Fournette's league. 

I know, right. Fournette is simply the more complete back, and he has a couple of extra gears that Perine just doesn't. I keep telling people that Perine has been compared to Michael Turner without the burner. He's not in Fournette's league.

[csx]

And they aren't being discussed as being taken at the same spot.

[LinvilleGorge]

27 minutes ago, top dawg said:

He probably won't be as complete a back as Stew from day one. Everyone knows that he will be the heir apparent. No need to rush him until it's time.

I don't think that Rivera would hold him back if he's obviously that much better. But I also don't think that Stew is going to go away quietly.

We don't use Stew as a complete back. The guy catches 76% of the passes thrown his way on his career and caught 47 passes for 400+ yards the one season we did feature him as a receiver, but we've barely thrown him 20 balls in each of the past two seasons. We just hand him the rock. I think Fournette would be better than him at that at this point in their careers from day one.

[LinvilleGorge]

13 minutes ago, csx said:

And they aren't being discussed as being taken at the same spot.

I think we can get a player at a different position that is closer to a guy we could get at #8 at just about any other position vs. a RB in comparison to Fournette.

Now, that might not necessarily be the case if QBs start flying off the board.

I still say that Myles Garrett is the only guy in this draft I'd take over Fournette if I'm the Panthers.

[LinvilleGorge]

7 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Don't forget that one season was pre-Shula. One of Shula's worst qualities is throwing to RBs. We have to change that, and no not by doing double fake blind screens like the one that lost us the Oakland game. Newton had no issues throwing a ton to Stewart his rookie year.

It's not so much that Shula doesn't involve the RB in the passing game, he just makes things too obvious. When we want to involve the RB aim the passing game, we have Fozzy in the game.

57 rushes vs. 33 passing targets for Fozzy, 218 rushes vs. 21 passing targets for Stew.

But to your point, that's still not a lot of targets to RBs. Stew had 47 catches on 61 targets by himself in 2011 when he had 400+ receiving yards.

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We don't use Stew as a complete back. The guy catches 76% of the passes thrown his way on his career and caught 47 passes for 400+ yards the one season we did feature him as a receiver, but we've barely thrown him 20 balls in each of the past two seasons. We just hand him the rock. I think Fournette would be better than him at that at this point in their careers from day one.

I was referring to blocking mostly. Stew is still one of the best, if not the best. 

He is still one of the better backs at yards after contact (if not the best when looking at his entire body of work).

But, getting back to blocking, it's not overrated, it's necessary. Stew knows his assignments, and I seriously doubt Fournette's gonna buck the odds and be up to par from day 101, much less day one.

[Kevin Greene]

So...if Stew is one of the best blocking backs ever. WITF is Cam getting the living shyt beaten out of him all the time?

 

 

Just stirring the shyt.