Do the Panthers even like Cam Newton?

[Ricky Spanish]

5 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Obviously a concussion is more severe, but when your franchise QB has a tear of any kind in his throwing shoulder, that's a very serious matter.

I was fine with him playing based on the provided information that there was no tear or damage. But then we find out now that there was a tear. This whole thing reeks of incompetence, and it's not the first time an injury has played out this way, it happened with his ankle a few years back as well. Accountability is needed.

I honestly think it's one of those deals where he's already hurt and he can't get hurt any more, so at that point it just becomes a pain tolerance issue like with Luke in 2015 and his torn labrum. They let him play still and no one was freaking out. I think people are more sensitive because Cam gets enough poo as it is, people white knight to his defense at the mere hint of criticism. 

I don't think there was anything malicious behind it. Rothelisberger played with a torn rotator thing too a few years back. QBs are football players too. I was more worried he'd get killed by illegal hits than about this rotator cuff thing. 

[truthjuice]

58 minutes ago, cookinbrak said:

Y'all do see all the crap the NBA is catching for sitting players, right?  

Apples to oranges. 

[Kakarot]

Didn't Jeremy post something where it was noted that his or an injury of his kind can and could've gotten worse?

As far as comparing it to Luke's injury, not only did Cam have a tear in his shoulder but he was constantly taking head shot after head shot. He should not have been playing those meaningless games.

[TheRed]

1 minute ago, Cracka McNasty said:

I honestly think it's one of those deals where he's already hurt and he can't get hurt any more, so at that point it just becomes a pain tolerance issue like with Luke in 2015 and his torn labrum. They let him play still and no one was freaking out. I think people are more sensitive because Cam gets enough poo as it is, people white knight to his defense at the mere hint of criticism. 

I don't think there was anything malicious behind it. Rothelisberger played with a torn rotator thing too a few years back. QBs are football players too. I was more worried he'd get killed by illegal hits than about this rotator cuff thing. 

Why do people keep mentioning Ben? Two different offenses, and two different offensive lines.

We're talking about Newton who was already getting battered behind a subpar OL. I can't get with this casual downplaying of a significant injury to his throwing shoulder, and it "not getting worse". Luke wasn't asked to go out there and throw the football up and down the field for 4 quarters. Those are two different situations just like you said about the concussion.

Regardless, I fear this fanbase has become much too accustomed to just assuming we can continue to keep doing the same things with Cam because of his size. It's painfully clear his size, and athleticism is getting taken for granted, he is still human, and he's entering what should be his prime. We can't keep expecting him to be our offense, and trot him out when he has a serious injury, and lie about it when questioned. That is pure, and simple bad management.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, TheRed said:

Why do people keep mentioning Ben? Two different offenses, and two different offensive lines.

We're talking about Newton who was already getting battered behind a subpar OL. I can't get with this casual downplaying of a significant injury to his throwing shoulder, and it "not getting worse". Luke wasn't asked to go out there and throw the football up and down the field for 4 quarters. Those are two different situations just like you said about the concussion.

Regardless, I fear this fanbase has become much too accustomed to just assuming we can continue to keep doing the same things with Cam because of his size. It's painfully clear his size, and athleticism is getting taken for granted, he is still human, and he's entering what should be his prime. We can't keep expecting him to be our offense, and trot him out when he has a serious injury, and lie about it when questioned. That is pure, and simple bad management.

I'm not especially concerned with the fanbase making those kind of assumptions.

I have a very large problem with it when the coaching staff makes them.

[JARROD]

Wasn't that in a movie-- "why the world doesn't need Superman"?




Sent from my iPhone using CarolinaHuddle

[Ricky Spanish]

5 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Why do people keep mentioning Ben? Two different offenses, and two different offensive lines.

We're talking about Newton who was already getting battered behind a subpar OL. I can't get with this casual downplaying of a significant injury to his throwing shoulder, and it "not getting worse". Luke wasn't asked to go out there and throw the football up and down the field for 4 quarters. Those are two different situations just like you said about the concussion.

Regardless, I fear this fanbase has become much too accustomed to just assuming we can continue to keep doing the same things with Cam because of his size. It's painfully clear his size, and athleticism is getting taken for granted, he is still human, and he's entering what should be his prime. We can't keep expecting him to be our offense, and trot him out when he has a serious injury, and lie about it when questioned. That is pure, and simple bad management.

Now I just straight up disagree with you here. Luke forcefully uses his body on every single play he's involved in to gain leverage and bring an opposing player to the ground. Luke makes contact with someone 100% of the plays he's in on, so he's at a higher risk of injury to an already injured area than Cam is. Cam, on passing plays, was "only" (and I use that in quotes because he was abused far more than he should have been on many, many, illegal hits) exposed to a hit on 11.87% of his pass attempts.

So while the situations are quite different, the fact you weren't more worried about Luke shows your bias to defend Cam at all costs.

And so what if the Steelers run a different offense? Ben still had the same injury and still played. Cam wasn't asked to run damn near at all after his shoulder injury, and he played too. Props too him for being a badass and not quitting. It also explains why he was throwing so terribly last year and gives me hope that it's not something wrong with his mechanics or mentally moving forward. 

I agree that Cam was abused on illegal BS FAR more than any other QB in the league. I would have liked the coaches to have done more to protect him whether it be getting in the face of the refs or defending him in the media about the illegal hits. 

I don't agree that the shoulder thing shows that the team doesn't care about him though. 

This shoulder thing doesn't bother me though. 

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

Now I just straight up disagree with you here. Luke forcefully uses his body on every single play he's involved in to gain leverage and bring an opposing player to the ground. Luke makes contact with someone 100% of the plays he's in on, so he's at a higher risk of injury to an already injured area than Cam is. Cam, on passing plays, was "only" (and I use that in quotes because he was abused far more than he should have been on many, many, illegal hits) exposed to a hit on 11.87% of his pass attempts.

So while the situations are quite different, the fact you weren't more worried about Luke shows your bias to defend Cam at all costs.

And so what if the Steelers run a different offense? Ben still had the same injury and still played. Cam wasn't asked to run damn near at all after his shoulder injury, and he played too. Props too him for being a badass and not quitting. It also explains why he was throwing so terribly last year and gives me hope that it's not something wrong with his mechanics or mentally moving forward. 

I agree that Cam was abused on illegal BS FAR more than any other QB in the league. I would have liked the coaches to have done more to protect him whether it be getting in the face of the refs or defending him in the media about the illegal hits. 

I don't agree that the shoulder thing shows that the team doesn't care about him though. 

This shoulder thing doesn't bother me though. 

The chosen treatment path doesn't bother me. It sounds like that's pretty standard.

Leaving him in the games when he should have been taken out does.  Yes, I know he lobbied to stay in, but that's expected.  And I don't want to hear that the head coach "tried" to take him out and was 'unsuccessful".  You're the head coach.  What you say (supposedly) goes.

[TheRed]

5 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

Now I just straight up disagree with you here. Luke forcefully uses his body on every single play he's involved in to gain leverage and bring an opposing player to the ground. Luke makes contact with someone 100% of the plays he's in on, so he's at a higher risk of injury to an already injured area than Cam is. Cam, on passing plays, was "only" (and I use that in quotes because he was abused far more than he should have been on many, many, illegal hits) exposed to a hit on 11.87% of his pass attempts.

So while the situations are quite different, the fact you weren't more worried about Luke shows your bias to defend Cam at all costs.

And so what if the Steelers run a different offense? Ben still had the same injury and still played. Cam wasn't asked to run damn near at all after his shoulder injury, and he played too. Props too him for being a badass and not quitting. It also explains why he was throwing so terribly last year and gives me hope that it's not something wrong with his mechanics or mentally moving forward. 

I agree that Cam was abused on illegal BS FAR more than any other QB in the league. I would have liked the coaches to have done more to protect him whether it be getting in the face of the refs or defending him in the media about the illegal hits. 

I don't agree that the shoulder thing shows that the team doesn't care about him though. 

This shoulder thing doesn't bother me though. 

What are you even talking about right now? I didn't say I was more or less concerned about Luke over Cam or vice versa. I said not all situations are equal, just like you said about discussing Luke's concussion, and Newton's shoulder injury together. They're different.

Man you're being a shitposter right now. I didn't accuse you of bias based on nothing but you're gonna throw that in my face for no reason? Don't be a dick.

I've also made me claim that the team "doesn't care". Just because I posted in here doesn't mean I completely agree with all of OP's assertions bud.

[Ricky Spanish]

3 minutes ago, TheRed said:

What are you even talking about right now? I didn't say I was more or less concerned about Luke over Cam or vice versa. I said not all situations are equal, just like you said about discussing Luke's concussion, and Newton's shoulder injury together. They're different.

Man you're being a shitposter right now. I didn't accuse you of bias based on nothing but you're gonna throw that in my face for no reason? Don't be a dick.

I've also made me claim that the team "doesn't care". Just because I posted in here doesn't mean I completely agree with all of OP's assertions bud.

Re-reading my post - I was all over the place, as was the tone.

Ultimately, I think Luke's head injury to Cam's shoulder injury isn't comparable, but Luke's Labrum injury to Cam's shoulder injury is, as was Rothelisberger's to Cam's. Both were not at risk of further injury (to their already injured areas) and were allowed to finish the season. 

[Jimmy]

I like you all, just saying. 

[TheRed]

2 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

Re-reading my post - I was all over the place, as was the tone.

Ultimately, I think Luke's head injury to Cam's shoulder injury isn't comparable, but Luke's Labrum injury to Cam's shoulder injury is, as was Rothelisberger's to Cam's. Both were not at risk of further injury (to their already injured areas) and were allowed to finish the season. 

As far as unequivocally not risking further injury, that is definitely debatable.

What I was saying is, when adding Luke, and the labrum injury to the discussion, it's comparable but definitely still different. Luke played through an injury but we had playoffs at stake. With Cam we were all but completely eliminated from playoff contention at that point. Both are franchise players. It's about risk vs reward which is basic common sense.

[Ricky Spanish]

2 minutes ago, TheRed said:

As far as unequivocally not risking further injury, that is definitely debatable.

What I was saying is, when adding Luke, and the labrum injury to the discussion, it's comparable but definitely still different. Luke played through an injury but we had playoffs at stake. With Cam we were all but completely eliminated from playoff contention at that point. Both are franchise players. It's about risk vs reward which is basic common sense.

Very good point, which brings me back to my original theory that Cam has too much pride to quit. 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Cracka McNasty said:

Very good point, which brings me back to my original theory that Cam has too much pride to quit. 

I don't doubt that.

But that's when the head coach is supposed to overrule a player to save them from themselves.

Rivera didn't, and the implication is that he couldn't.

That's just not a good situation.