Carolina Panthers work out East Carolina's Zay Jones and working out Ross

[WOW!!]

8 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I don't blame him for the offense as a whole, but I certainly do put a healthy amount of blame on him for catching less than 40% of the passes thrown his way.

Ginn and Olsen largely did what they do. Hell, Ginn actually had his highest catch percentage, catches, and yardage of all of his three seasons as a Panther. Olsen had 3 more catches but 34 less yards; his catch percentage was virtually identical (62.0% vs. 62.1%). It was Funchess and Philly who fell off a cliff. That's probably why we let Philly walk and it's why I think Funchess should be in "prove it" mode.

That's all I'm saying here. I'm not saying cut the guy right now. I'm simply saying that his free ride should be over. If other guys out-perform him, don't hang onto him simply because he's young and we spent a 2nd round pick on him. That 2nd round pick is a sunk cost. We're not getting that back. It's time for Funchess to be judged based on his performance and not on his potential.

I disagree.. I honestly think everybody gets a pass from Gettelman not doing his job..

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, WOW!! said:

I disagree.. I honestly think everybody gets a pass from Gettelman not doing his job..

It just doesn't work like that.

As far as the receivers go, when you break down the numbers, it's clear that the primary issues were Philly and Funchess.

Yeah, Gettleman shouldn't have let this team go into the season so desperately thin at OT and putting the entire defense on the shoulders of a rookie CB crew was foolhardy at best, but the players still have to do their jobs when given an opportunity. KB, Ginn, and Olsen did what they do. Ginn in particular had his best season as a Panther. Funchess was terrible and Philly wasn't much better. That's on them and them alone.

[WOW!!]

15 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

1. I agree that most players improve after their rookie season. Though his yardage was pretty similar, his catch percentage plummeted last year while Benjamin and Ginn saw an improvement in this metric and Olsen's was virtually identical. It wasn't just Cam being inaccurate.

2. See above.

3. Agreed.

4. That sounds just like last year. Everyone was raving about his offseason work last year.

Again, I'm not saying to not give the guy a chance. I really hope he wakes up and delivers on his potential, but we shouldn't be counting on that. Really hoping to see another WR drafted early. 

1. Your also talking about players who have had more oppurtunity and way more time with Cam to build chemistry with him..

2. See above..

4. I think everything got off the rails when Cam started to get killed and the Oline fell apart..

Everybody should know by now when Cam gets rattled.. He gets tunnel vision only goes to his favorite WR he has more confidence in. (Olsen, KB, Ginn)  And the accuracy and spreading the ball around stops..

[WOW!!]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It just doesn't work like that.

As far as the receivers go, when you break down the numbers, it's clear that the primary issues were Philly and Funchess.

Yeah, Gettleman shouldn't have let this team go into the season so desperately thin at OT and putting the entire defense on the shoulders of a rookie CB crew was foolhardy at best, but the players still have to do their jobs when given an opportunity. KB, Ginn, and Olsen did what they do. Ginn in particular had his best season as a Panther. Funchess was terrible and Philly wasn't much better. That's on them and them alone.

Like I said the players you name have Cam's confidence and have more chemistry with him.. So of course sooner or later they will get on the same track.. Players like Funch has probably  spent more time with DA than with Cam so the chemistry isn't able to overcome a stressed out Cam... 

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, WOW!! said:

1. Your also talking about players who have had more oppurtunity and way more time with Cam to build chemistry with him..

2. See above..

4. I think everything got off the rails when Cam started to get killed and the Oline fell apart..

Everybody should know by now when Cam gets rattled.. He gets tunnel vision only goes to his favorite WR he has more confidence in.  And the accuracy and spreading the ball around stops..

Why should Funchess have gotten more targets when he was the least efficient WR on the roster?

Yes, Cam getting killed out there definitely impacted the offense as a whole, but reference the catch percentage numbers I posted earlier.

Funchess got considerably more targets per snap than Philly who his snap count was most comparable to. KB had the highest percentage and his was still under 15%. Again, Funchess' was 11.7%. Given the poor success when targeting him, I think that's pretty damn generous in terms of opportunities.

 

[WOW!!]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

Why should Funchess have gotten more targets when he was the least efficient WR on the roster?

Yes, Cam getting killed out there definitely impacted the offense as a whole, but reference the catch percentage numbers I posted earlier.

Funchess got considerably more targets per snap than Philly who his snap count was most comparable to. KB had the highest percentage and his was still under 15%. Again, Funchess' was 11.7%. Given the poor success when targeting him, I think that's pretty damn generous in terms of opportunities.

 

Wait KB got way more targets his rookie year when he wasn't nearly efficent as Cothery..

So not a excuse..

Brown has been here 3 or 4 years.. It was Funch 2nd year and really 1st full offseason with the team ...  Again you're doing alot of comparing to guys who have full seasons of chemistry with Cam...  

[LinvilleGorge]

39.6% catch percentage. What more really needs to be said?

If you want more opportunities, earn them. Funchess didn't earn them. Given his actual production, I think the opportunities he got were generous.

[WOW!!]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

39.6% catch percentage. What more really needs to be said?

If you want more opportunities, earn them. Funchess didn't earn them. Given his actual production, I think the opportunities he got were generous.

We will see i guess..

[LinvilleGorge]

Here's the list of catch rates of the 93 WRs who received at least 50 targets in the NFL last year.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

Funchess is dead last. Not only was he last, but there were only 5 other guys who were under 50%. Funchess was well below 50%. 46% was second to last. So, Funchess wasn't just last, he was last by a long shot.

[WOW!!]

5 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Here's the list of catch rates of the 93 WRs who received at least 50 targets in the NFL last year.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

Funchess is dead last. Not only was he last, but there were only 5 other guys who were under 50%. Funchess was well below 50%. 46% was second to last. So, Funchess wasn't just last, he was last by a long shot.

Thank you for the nerd stats i don't care about.. 

Like i said before in other thread numbers can be skewed by not having context..

I don't think he got alot of oppourtunity last year.. Didn't get the chance to fail and go back to him like KB got his rookie year and Ginn got since he has been here..

I don't think Cam was accurate or playing at his normal level..

You can keep showing pff and footballoutsider and focus number if you want..

Thoe..

[LinvilleGorge]

So, basically you think what you think based on your perception alone and that's that?

Well, no one can argue against that.

But, what you're saying is demonstrably false and I've demonstrated that. It wasn't Fuchess' lack of opportunity, it was his lack of capitalizing on those opportunities.

[WOW!!]

26 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

So, basically you think what you think based on your perception alone and that's that?

Well, no one can argue against that.

But, what you're saying is demonstrably false and I've demonstrated that. It wasn't Fuchess' lack of opportunity, it was his lack of capitalizing on those opportunities.

No i think i watched every game for years and i can compare what i saw to others. 

I saw a comfotable cam give Ginn and KB more oppourtunities.  I saw the coaches show more paients with KB and Ginn even when they made a mistake... 

Again try and compare KB's rookie year snaps and targets to Funch last year.. He got way more oppourtunties even when he was efficent. 

Funch had a shorter leash and the offense as a whole was off the rails to much so that you truly couldn't get a clear reading who was to blame..

And i didn't even mention Shula play calling..

Context with numbers > then just numbers.. 

[LinvilleGorge]

You keep talking about lack of opportunities while ignoring the evidence that I've presented. Literally no one in the NFL was more inefficient with the opportunities given them in the passing game than was Devin Funchess. What did he do to deserve more opportunities? He was 3rd among WRs on our roster in terms of targets and the percentage of snaps when he received a target. What more do you want? At some point it's on the player to perform and demonstrate that he deserves more opportunities.

Honestly, if Funchess wasn't a 2nd round pick, at some point last season Bersin would've probably started to get his snaps based on efficiency alone.

[WOW!!]

9 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You keep talking about lack of opportunities while ignoring the evidence that I've presented. Literally no one in the NFL was more inefficient with the opportunities given them in the passing game than was Devin Funchess. What did he do to deserve more opportunities? He was 3rd among WRs on our roster in terms of targets and the percentage of snaps when he received a target. What more do you want? At some point it's on the player to perform and demonstrate that he deserves more opportunities.

Honestly, if Funchess wasn't a 2nd round pick, at some point last season Bersin would've probably started to get his snaps based on efficiency alone.

And again i got to keep saying over and over again .. Lack of oppourtunities compare to what KB and Ginn were getting when they weren't efficent.. In the same situation rookie KB got to fail and still get targeted and snaps..

Also Funch oppourtunities were coming from a rattled Cam.. Nobody can say Cam was always throwing a catchable ball this year..

Context..