Why I Have Fallen Out of Love with Fournette at 8...

[Saca312]

If I'm being honest, Fournette isn't as transcendental as AP is. Fournette will be a really good back, but he honestly could be passed on when there's so much value deeper in the draft. 

He doesn't have the cuts AP has and will only succeed really well in a downhill run scheme. He's good, but not transcendental, and I think it's a real possibility we could pass over him.

[top dawg]

11 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Everything is a pendulum in the NFL. Everyone is trying to adapt to what everyone else is doing. It's a far more reactive environment than it is proactive. IMO, with the success of passing attacks and the evolution of defenses to defend the pass, we'll see a return to power running schemes soon simply because they're likely to be very successful vs. defenses that aren't built to defend against them.

Not that you aren't a smart and thoughtful poster, but this is one of the smartest things I've ever seen you post. 

All this crap about the devalued RB is overblown. It may be a so-called "passing league," but GMs to coaches on down absolutely love to have a power back that can run it down your throat. Even Billy B would run it with impunity if he could get away with it. 

The run is never too far away!

[Proudiddy]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Everything is a pendulum in the NFL. Everyone is trying to adapt to what everyone else is doing. It's a far more reactive environment than it is proactive. IMO, with the success of passing attacks and the evolution of defenses to defend the pass, we'll see a return to power running schemes soon simply because they're likely to be very successful vs. defenses that aren't built to defend against them.

Yeah, i do believe everything comes back around eventually as coaches try to find ways to attack the pervading trends.  And again, i refer to those outliers...  Seattle has won consistently in this pass happy era with an offense built on the power run while most other consistent winners followed the passing-centric trends.  But, that was due to the unique ability of Lynch and to some degree Wilson's improvisation skills.  It's all about personnel and who has a player whose skill can buck those trends?  

I don't think Fournette is that guy.

[Mr. Scot]

23 minutes ago, Hammerin'Cameron1 said:

How about we evolve back into the 2011 offense that ranked 7th in total yards

Rookie Cam = 7th best offense in terms of yards

Because the 2011 offense piled up yards and stats early in games but faded as the games went on.

I don't give a flying rat's ass about stats. I want wins.

[Proudiddy]

2 minutes ago, Hammerin'Cameron1 said:

It was our defense that was the problem that year, and Olindo Mare.

Our defense couldn't stop anybody but our offense was epic and maybe you can help me find this stat, I could never find it, but FOX aired it during a late 2011 game that the Panthers led the league in TD drives of 80+ yards ...

We led the league in 2011 in TD drives of 80+ yards ... then like week 3 should have beat Green Bay but our defense fuged us, it was our D, our offense was a well oiled machine we need 2 TE sets again with an effective #2 TE

All i know is Chud was a genius that first year, and he knew how to cater the offense to Cam's strengths and development.  His issue was he started getting too cute at times, and IMO, started calling games to audition for a HC gig, rather than for winning the games at hand.

I loved Chud that first year, and would still prefer the humble version of him over Shula any time.

 

[gorillamilitia13]

4 hours ago, L-TownCat said:

I'm still on the LF train but if anyone is gaining it's OJ Howard.  I'm liking this kid a lot.

He's one of those few draft prospects that you know without a doubt, barring any unfortunate injury, will be a true beast in the league.

[Proudiddy]

5 minutes ago, Hammerin'Cameron1 said:

I don't think Chud's play calling had anything to do with auditioning for a HC gig - he was doing a stellar job and did all that year it was our 28th ranked defense and Olindo Mare who lost us many games (And of course Cam had like 18 INT's)

The two TE sets that year are maybe a bigger reason for our offenses success that year than anything else .. Shockey and Olsen out there was just badass

No doubt.  Agreed.  To be clear, i was referring to Chud's second year as OC when he started getting cute and was clearly auditioning for a job.  I hated the Mare move when it was made and knew he was going to blow.  Also, Ron blew several games on his own with his infamous horrible game management and forcing teams to "systematically" beat us and in '11 and '12.

[Mr. Scot]

21 minutes ago, Hammerin'Cameron1 said:

It was our defense that was the problem that year, and Olindo Mare.

Our defense couldn't stop anybody but our offense was epic and maybe you can help me find this stat, I could never find it, but FOX aired it during a late 2011 game that the Panthers led the league in TD drives of 80+ yards ...

We led the league in 2011 in TD drives of 80+ yards ... then like week 3 should have beat Green Bay but our defense fuged us, it was our D, our offense was a well oiled machine we need 2 TE sets again with an effective #2 TE

28th in D, 7th in O

If we had a top 10 D that year we were making the playoffs and making some noise with our offense we had

Defense faded in the second half because they were on the field all the time because the offense sputtered, a lot of which was based on failure to counter other teams' adjustments.

Sound familiar?

It should. Our current OC managed a similar attack this year.

[ShutDwn]

Derrick Henry is as big, ran .03 seconds slower in the 40 but jumped 9 inches higher. Henry had the best vert, broad jump and 60 yard dash at the combine and he he went 45th. 

You all should be more concerned that Fournette didn't do all the drills, especially when his vertical was absolutely awful. He isn't known for having insane vision, patience, or receiving and his weakness is getting stopped before he gets going. Same poo as Henry, so why should he go 37 picks higher?

 

To be clear I don't want any RB at 8 overall but the Fournette hype is name recognition. If he had Henry's combine, people would've really thought he was AP.

[Snake]

1 hour ago, Proudiddy said:

While I agree with most of what you're saying here, there are still those outliers that appear to be dinosaurs in the face of evolving philosophies and changes that make you go, "but, if had one of those!"  Lol.  To be fair though, that's why I'm off the Fournette train though, because despite his physical stature and skill, I do NOT think he is one of thosr magical dinosaurs that make being stuck in Shula's dated offensive philosophy worth it.  He is NOT AP.  He is not as explosive.  I think he'll be solid and dependable for several years with some impressive highlights, but will not have the impact AP did coming in.

I don't think anyone will get the chance to do what AP did anymore. The rules of the game have changed and so has scheming. The days of the cover 2 are dead and teams regularly use a cover 3 formation. Its why TEa and receiving backs are so valuable.

[Proudiddy]

11 minutes ago, Snake said:

I don't think anyone will get the chance to do what AP did anymore. The rules of the game have changed and so has scheming. The days of the cover 2 are dead and teams regularly use a cover 3 formation. Its why TEa and receiving backs are so valuable.

Yeah, the game has changed, but i go back to personnel...  I believe there was a thread here not too long ago when McDermott was explaining how the majority of defensive snaps are now played out of nickel.  So, if I was a coach, I would want to explore the idea of using a heavy set to counter it regularly to get a defense out of the nickel.  It would take an AP-type of back and capable blockers.  Once you force a defense to adjust, you can then add extra wrinkles, like then passing out of that same heavy formation, but again, it would take the right personnel.  If that works with consistency, just like with the pass-heavy offenses and nickel defenses, other teams will try it of they can find the personnel to implement it.

[Chardee MacDennis]

I've been thinking this for a while now. They're about to change up the offense in my opinion. Ross at 8, trade back into late 1st for McCaffrey. Get em both. Adds speed, playmaking, versatility. Combined with the 2 new WRs, going to see more of Fozzy in games. Still use Benjamin and Olson to move the sticks whenever, and they will actually be open more often when teams have to account for those other speedy playmakers.

Funchess about to be traded for some more picks, to help move into the 1st for CMac. You're about to see a more Patriot like offense. Throwing 40-50 times per game. Using the pass to set up the run. Stewart being used like Blount, while CMac and Ross used like Edelman and their other dude. Olsen/Benjamin similar to Gronk.

Sent using the amazing CarolinaHuddle mobile app

[Snake]

1 hour ago, top dawg said:

And yet 13 out of 20 teams polled said that they prefer Fournette to Cook. Strange...

Well I would too. Cook IMO is more of a Reggie Bush type player. He is probably my 4th favorite back out of this draft. The kid can't even pass protect and in this day and age that is just as important as running the ball. Perfect example is the Pats and Blount. Every team knew it was run or PA with Blount in.

[PantherWake]

People just hear "Fournette is the best RB prospect in years" and don't even think about how he would fit in this team. He's not a good shotgun runner and we run our offense 70% of the time in shotgun plus thats Cam's strength.

Perine from Oklahoma would be a much better fit and wouldnt cost us a 1st or 2nd rounder when we have bigger needs at DE, WR, and S.