Which DE is worth a shot in this years draft

[WOW!!]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It's not bullshit. The college game and the NFL game are different. How often is a guy truly going up against a future NFL starter? It's not about what he can do against college competition, it's about projecting what he's going to be able to do against NFL competition.

Just remember, Michael Sam was the SEC DPOY not too long ago. The Golden Calf of Bristol is one of the best college football players ever. Keyshawn Garrett was the NCAA leading WR and we picked him up as a UDFA.

And How many times has team drafted a prototype and got burned.. 

Aaron Curry, Tony Manderige, QB's and WR of plenty..

And please don't use The Golden Calf of Bristol as a example..

We are talking about using actual skill pro ready skills against actual pro rated talent in a actual pro ready system and produced. NOT GIMMICK PLAYERS in gimmick systems who produced..

Micheal Sam was a 1 year wonder go back and check his college production over 4 years and come back and tell me how this is compare to Barnett..

[Swaggasaurus]

1 minute ago, PrimeTimeHeel said:

DE in a 34 look. 

If one can not even find one game of him in a 43 look as a DE 40% of the time I don't care what PFF says. 

Not sure why you are trying to debate this. Not even debatable. 

ST played mostly in a 34. 

I've been trying to make this point for two months. The guy has no game footage of him rushing outside of an OT, it does not exist. 

I don't even hate the player, I just don't know what people see, I guess the results of wrecking the QB and blowing up runs, but how did he get there? He realeased on an OT inside because his assignment wasn't contain or he beat a guard one on one. How would that help the Panthers? It wouldn't

[davos]

Barnett and Thomas are both going to be really solid in their own right.   

Thomas can fit a Michael Bennett type role.  Hand-in-ground or upright at least at 3 of the 4 spots.  Awesome versatility for having a rotation like us.  Can slide inside for nickel/passing down packages...but then we also want a Base DE as a compliment.

Barnett is going to be an all-around type with annual double digit sack potential.  He has power (very much so), balance, decent bend, but an iffy step.  His size and step along with some scouts calling him more of a rotational pass-rusher will deter some but I see something good in him.  He plays 25 lbs lighter than he is speed wise but 25 lbs heavier for his power.  He's a guy team-to-team scouts may have a variety of opinions on.  He could slide but I'm a fan.  

 

 

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, WOW!! said:

And How many times has team drafted a prototype and got burned.. 

Aaron Curry, Tony Manderige, QB's and WR of plenty..

And please don't use The Golden Calf of Bristol as a example..

We are talking about using actual skill pro ready skills against actual pro rated talent in a actual pro ready system and produced. NOT GIMMICK PLAYERS in gimmick systems who produced..

Micheal Sam was a 1 year wonder go back and check his college production over 4 years and come back and tell me how this is compare to Barnett..

I get that you like Barnett. Hell, I do too. But you're being a little emotional here. 

Aaron Curry wasn't just a prototype. He also had 80+ tackles in three straight seasons. Hell, he was considered by many to be the safest pick in that draft. No one thought that guy was gonna bust.

Very few prospects at premium positions have ideal measurables, ideal athleticism, with great production. The ones who do are sure-fire top 5 picks. Saying there are some pretty major question marks about Barnett isn't knocking him because the same thing is true for 99.9% of prospects. There's a reason why Garrett is considered the slam dunk #1 overall pick this year and it's because he's got the trifecta - ideal measurables, ideal athleticism, and production. Barnett has production. The measurables and athleticism are question marks. A good pro day would really do him some good.

[PrimeTimeHeel]

1 minute ago, Swaggasaurus said:

I've been trying to make this point for two months. The guy has no game footage of him rushing outside of an OT, it does not exist. 

I don't even hate the player, I just don't know what people see, I guess the results of wrecking the QB and blowing up runs, but how did he get there? He realeased on an OT inside because his assignment wasn't contain or he beat a guard one on one. How would that help the Panthers? It wouldn't

 

This. 

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, Swaggasaurus said:

I've been trying to make this point for two months. The guy has no game footage of him rushing outside of an OT, it does not exist. 

I don't even hate the player, I just don't know what people see, I guess the results of wrecking the QB and blowing up runs, but how did he get there? He realeased on an OT inside because his assignment wasn't contain or he beat a guard one on one. How would that help the Panthers? It wouldn't

Like I've been saying, it isn't about what you've done, it's about what you're projected to be able to do.

Every year college DEs are drafted to stand up and play 3-4 OLB when they've been playing with a hand in the dirt their entire life. Hell, Barnett very well could end up being one of those guys.

[Swaggasaurus]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

Like I've been saying, it isn't about what you've done, it's about what you're projected to be able to do.

Every year college DEs are drafted to stand up and play 3-4 OLB when they've been playing with a hand in the dirt their entire life.

You don't take a guy at 8 based on projecting that he can do something he's never done

[WOW!!]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I get that you like Barnett. Hell, I do too. But you're being a little emotional here. 

Aaron Curry wasn't just a prototype. He also had 80+ tackles in three straight seasons. Hell, he was considered by many to be the safest pick in that draft. No one thought that guy was gonna bust.

Very few prospects at premium positions have ideal measurables, ideal athleticism, with great production. The ones who do are sure-fire top 5 picks. Saying there are some pretty major question marks about Barnett isn't knocking him because the same thing is true for 99.9% of prospects. There's a reason why Garrett is considered the slam dunk #1 overall pick this year and it's because he's got the trifecta - ideal measurables, ideal athleticism, and production. Barnett has production. The measurables and athleticism are question marks. A good pro day would really do him some good.

Not emotional just correcting some false hood.. 

No question Garret has all the boxes checked.. 

My problem is this Taco Charlton love fest based on stuff that would get a madden GM fired..

I don't have a clue what is downgrading Barnett..

But if it helps us  get him with a later pick..

WIN!!!

[Swaggasaurus]

Just now, Promethean Forerunner said:

Watch the breakdowns too. Thomas has played on the edge.

He doesn't have contain tho. I've posted the same video. Goddamn it's not even close to how you play end in a 4-3. Do you not see his success lined up "outside" is a result of him dive bombing the OT. If you do that in a 4-3 you are fuged. See that OLB beside him? He's got contain which means he's the edge not Thomas. 

[WOW!!]

1 minute ago, Hammerin'Cameron1 said:

ur fugin stupid if you don't think charlton is pick at 8

Then I'm stupid...duh..

Taco is going to get somebody fired. 

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, WOW!! said:

Not emotional just correcting some false hood.. 

No question Garret has all the boxes checked.. 

My problem is this Taco Charlton love fest based on stuff that would get a madden GM fired..

I don't have a clue what is downgrading Barnett..

But if it helps us  get him with a later pick..

WIN!!!

It isn't falsehood to point out Barnett's short arms and less than ideal 4-3 DE size. That's just reality. If the guy had ideal size with his production, he'd be getting top 5 pick discussion. He's not for a reason. Then there's the fact that his Combine performance numbers were borderline awful. I get that he was sick, but he needs better performances at his pro day. When you have less than ideal size combined with less than ideal athleticism, that equals one helluva question mark. I expect him to put up much better numbers at his pro day. If he doesn't, he might be in for a slide.

Agreed on Taco. He looks like a classic bust prospect.

[WOW!!]

2 minutes ago, Hammerin'Cameron1 said:

charlton is the biggest freak in this draft at DE but all of you guys except a few smart ones want guys who are peaking in college

Garret is a bigger freak.. sorry

[PrimeTimeHeel]

7 minutes ago, Promethean Forerunner said:

Watch the breakdowns too. Thomas has played on the edge.

 

I am not saying he has never played on the edge. 

I am saying he played 80-90+% in a 34

[WOW!!]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It isn't falsehood to point out Barnett's short arms and less than ideal 4-3 DE size. That's just reality. If the guy had ideal size with his production, he'd be getting top 5 pick discussion. He's not for a reason. Then there's the fact that his Combine performance numbers were borderline awful. I get that he was sick, but he needs better performances at his pro day. When you have less than ideal size combined with less than ideal athleticism, that equals one helluva question mark. I expect him to put up much better numbers at his pro day. If he doesn't, he might be in for a slide.

Wtf .. borderline awful..okay whatever..