Which DE is worth a shot in this years draft

[pantherj]

6 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

But, did CJ finish in the top-5 in every speed and agility drill (outside of the 40, which he was 11th)?  What makes his testing even more impressive is the fact that the DL group at the combine also includes some of the 250lb type college DE's that will be asked to play LBs at the next level.

Maybe he would be better as a 3-4 end but this idea that he doesn't have the quickness to play as a 4-3 end is ludicrous.  He might not have the height and wingspan that some teams covet but he showed the quickness at the combine.

 

 

Of course he has the quickness to play 4-3 DE, and he'll go in the 1st round. Who said he doesn't have the quickness to play 4-3 DE?

[AU-panther]

19 hours ago, pantherj said:

6 minutes ago, pantherj said:

Of course he has the quickness to play 4-3 DE, and he'll go in the 1st round. Who said he doesn't have the quickness to play 4-3 DE?

It's a big mistake imo to think that Thomas is going to be this great pass rusher off the edge in the pros. Not happening. He doesn't have the arms and explosion, and really the lower body isn't really right either. If anything you move him inside on passing downs.

I consider explosion quickness.  And what do you mean by he doesn't have the lower body? 

[pantherj]

Just now, AU-panther said:

I consider explosion quickness.  And what do you mean by he doesn't have the lower body? 

Oh no he's plenty quick. I mean he doesn't have an explosive first step out of his pass rush. He's not going to be a guy who racks up sacks imo.

[AU-panther]

10 minutes ago, pantherj said:

Oh no he's plenty quick. I mean he doesn't have an explosive first step out of his pass rush. He's not going to be a guy who racks up sacks imo.

You don't run a 6.95 3 cone without an explosive first step.

To put in into perspective:  He was fourth in that drill.

The top three performers in the drill were 255, 248, and 243lbs.

In my opinion it is probably the drill that most resembles that quick edge burst and bending around a tackle.  Barnett actually finished 5th in that test even though he did bad in a lot of the other testing because it is probably the reason he was so good as an edge rusher in a 4-3.

 

 

[Manos]

If we get two, what about that kid from Villanova?

Tanoh looks like he could be very good. The main negatives I've heard are issues with his base and him playing too upright (which given his size is understandable). I don't know if you take him at 40 but if he is there at 64 then i think you snag him.

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[PrimeTimeHeel]

Thomas looks quick and explosion. 

The question is how low can he get and how good can he BEND around the edge?

The problem is we havent seen him do this in college, or certainly without any regularity.

Barrnett did this every game. 

If we draft Thomas i will be slightly worried, but not mad.

Right now I want Adams I think above all at 8. 

 

[pantherj]

13 minutes ago, PrimeTimeHeel said:

Thomas looks quick and explosion. 

The question is how low can he get and how good can he BEND around the edge?

The problem is we havent seen him do this in college, or certainly without any regularity.

Barrnett did this every game. 

If we draft Thomas i will be slightly worried, but not mad.

Right now I want Adams I think above all at 8. 

 

 

The shorter guys have to have that 45 degree bend if they want to be a real sack artist. The best who ever did it was Dwight. Solomon doesn't have that bend and I don't think he's going to magically get it. He doesn't have the height and arm length you would need in the pros to be a great pass rusher. Dwight went 11th with that incredible bend. Solomon might go 20th with no bend. I just don't see taking Solomon at 8.

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, pantherj said:

 

The shorter guys have to have that 45 degree bend if they want to be a real sack artist. The best who ever did it was Dwight. Solomon doesn't have that bend and I don't think he's going to magically get it. He doesn't have the height and arm length you would need in the pros to be a great pass rusher. Dwight went 11th with that incredible bend. Solomon might go 20th with no bend. I just don't see taking Solomon at 8.

Very different players. Freeney was a pure speed rusher. Thomas is more comparable to a more athletic version of our own Charles Johnson. They may be shorter than ideal, but they primarily win with strength, not speed.

[PrimeTimeHeel]

If we played a 34 I would love Thomas 

[pantherj]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Very different players. Freeney was a pure speed rusher. Thomas is more comparable to a more athletic version of our own Charles Johnson. They may be shorter than ideal, but they primarily win with strength, not speed.

Yeah I just can't resist show Dwight when the topic of bending comes up, and the other guy thought Solomon was going to be doing that which is a little off.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, pantherj said:

Yeah I just can't resist show Dwight when the topic of bending comes up, and the other guy thought Solomon was going to be doing that which is a little off.

Dude could damn near put his inside shoulder in the dirt, no doubt about it.

[pantherj]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Dude could damn near put his inside shoulder in the dirt, no doubt about it.

Unblockable. It was almost like he could defy gravity.

[davos]

In-play instincts and open field abilities are big in a Rivera defense.  Some should consider that up in herrre

[AU-panther]

1 hour ago, PrimeTimeHeel said:

Thomas looks quick and explosion. 

The question is how low can he get and how good can he BEND around the edge?

The problem is we havent seen him do this in college, or certainly without any regularity.

Barrnett did this every game. 

If we draft Thomas i will be slightly worried, but not mad.

Right now I want Adams I think above all at 8. 

 

First we were talking about explosion, then quickness, and now bend.  You are right about Bennett, as a RDE in a 4-3 he did it all the time.  

Thomas didn't, was it because he couldn't or their defense didn't ask him to?  Look at his alignment compared to Bennett.  How often was he aligned to do that, in a 3-4 his outside line backers were probably asked to do that.  

I agree that it is a bit of unknown with him but his 3 cone at the combine suggest he can.  His number was outstanding.  It helps to measure speed while bending.  Here is a description:

As far as the Freeney video goes a lot of those highlight are him lined up as a RDE speed rushing in passing situations.  We just signed our RDE pass rush specialist to a 4yr deal.  I see Thomas as a LDE and future CJ replacement.  As a LDE you are often covered up by a TE so "bending" around the corner isn't as viable.  Also DEs have run defense responsibilities that he has shown to excell at.

I