Which DE is worth a shot in this years draft

[pantherj]

It's a big mistake imo to think that Thomas is going to be this great pass rusher off the edge in the pros. Not happening. He doesn't have the arms and explosion, and really the lower body isn't really right either. If anything you move him inside on passing downs.

[carpanfan96]

4 minutes ago, pantherj said:

It's about what you're going to do in the pros. He's not going to be this great run stuffer at that size, and he's not an explosive pass rusher. So the logical step is to bulk him up to improve his run blocking in the pros, and that can be his thing. He's too light for that right now.

CJ is 275, most 4-3 ends are lighter. You want a 4-3 end with burst ( first step, 10 yard split), large frame ( ie height), long arms and violent hands. 

 

On tape you want to see speed, bend, violent hands, containment while rushing (ie staying gap responsible) instincts, explosive athleticism and use of counter moves when stopped after using go to rush move. 

[pantherj]

2 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

CJ is 275, most 4-3 ends are lighter. You want a 4-3 end with burst ( first step, 10 yard split), large frame ( ie height), long arms and violent hands. 

 

On tape you want to see speed, bend, violent hands, containment while rushing (ie staying gap responsible) instincts, explosive athleticism and use of counter moves when stopped after using go to rush move. 

CJ is one of those guys who is almost abnormally strong at his size, and he really stuns guys with how strong he is in the weight room. I wouldn't draft Thomas at 8 if Fournette were there, but I think Thomas has some of the tools to be a good DE.

[Big_Down_Under]

Tanoh Kpassagnon.

He will be great value pick based on the other DE talent pushing him down, and he'll have the GREATEST 6'7 DE of ALL TIME with a resurgence of Panther pride taking on a mentoring role to advise him on how to best gain leverage and utilise his rangy, athletic 6'7 frame, WHICH NOT ALL D-LINE COACHES HAVE EXPERIENCE MOLDING AND TEACHING WHAT PROPER TECHNIQUE SHOULD BE TO PLAYERS THAT PHYSICALLY GIFTED WITH FREAKISH SIZE AND ATHLETESISM. I don't know lots, but through personal experience I know there is a huge difference between an inch or 2 in height/length and technique when you're dealing with an "abnormally" large individual with above average athleticism. We actually signed a handler in JP perfect to groom him, specifically imo. Pep retiring and leaving Tanoh with a year (or 3) of his guidance will only help JP in rebuilding his legacy, and will actually be his personal fingerprint on our club as long as Tanoh stays and is productive.

Value at where he's drafted, athletic potential, work ethic, character, and beyond prototypical size make him the best value at DE than any other, between late 2nd and mid 3rd I reckon, as opposed to a DE earlier in the draft when there are so many other unique talents that fit what we are trying to do available. 

 

I missed Julius Peppers so god damn much it hurts, has hurt, and still a bit of me as a football fan is dead. After hearing how humble and homesick JP seemed to be, drafting Tanoh and giving JP a side project to focus on (since he'll only play roughly 20 snaps a game) will leave a more current and longer lasting imprint on our squad after he retires, and will leave us better off than when he got here.

[AU-panther]

                              Barnett                                Thomas                              Charlton

Height                       6'3"                                      6'3"                                     6'6"

Weight                      259                                      273                                     277

Arm                         32 1/8"                                   33"                                  34 1/4"

40yrd                     4.88 sec (27th)                 4.69 sec (11th)                       4.92 sec

Bench                    did not do                             30(4th)                                25(14th)

Vert                        31" (25th)                            35" (5th)                              33"(10th)

Broad                     117" (18th)                         126"(5th)                             116"(22nd)

3 cone                  6.96 sec (5th)                     6.95 sec (4th)                       7.17(13th)

20 yrd shuttle       4.44 sec (22nd)                   4.28 sec (3th)                       4.39(14th)

60 yrd shuttle          did not do                           did not do                              did not do

All times from nfl.com.  Number in parentheses is their ranking amoung position group.  Bolded are top 5 numbers.

Based on the combine Thomas is actually one of the most explosive and quick players tested.  Whether or not he can translate that to playing as a 4-3 end at the pro level is another question but the physical abilities seem to be there.

The amazing part about Thomas' quickness numbers is that of the few guys that did better than him a lot of them were a lot smaller.

 

[AU-panther]

10 hours ago, pantherj said:

CJ is one of those guys who is almost abnormally strong at his size, and he really stuns guys with how strong he is in the weight room. I wouldn't draft Thomas at 8 if Fournette were there, but I think Thomas has some of the tools to be a good DE.

                               CJ                                   Thomas

Height                    6'2"                                        6'3'

Weight                   270                                        273

Arm                          ?                                           33"

40yrd                   4.75 sec                            4.69 sec (11th)

Bench                    33                                        30(4th)

Vert                      30" (29th)                               35" (5th)

Broad                    118"                                     126"(5th)

3 cone                 7.51 sec                             6.95 sec (4th)

20 yrd shuttle          ?                                     4.28 sec (3th)

60 yrd shuttle   

For the comparison's sake I decided to try find CJ's combine results.  This was the best I could do https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Johnson_(defensive_end)#cite_note-4

Thomas was close to CJ in the bench and quicker them him in every quickness metric I could find.  I know bench press isn't the end all test for strength but Thomas' vertical and broad jump would be a testament to his lower body power considering the weight he did both of those measurements at.

[Confined9991]

God I want Thomas Fournette or Adams bad...anyone else is a disappointment 

[WOW!!]

6 hours ago, Big_Down_Under said:

Tanoh Kpassagnon.

He will be great value pick based on the other DE talent pushing him down, and he'll have the GREATEST 6'7 DE of ALL TIME with a resurgence of Panther pride taking on a mentoring role to advise him on how to best gain leverage and utilise his rangy, athletic 6'7 frame, WHICH NOT ALL D-LINE COACHES HAVE EXPERIENCE MOLDING AND TEACHING WHAT PROPER TECHNIQUE SHOULD BE TO PLAYERS THAT PHYSICALLY GIFTED WITH FREAKISH SIZE AND ATHLETESISM. I don't know lots, but through personal experience I know there is a huge difference between an inch or 2 in height/length and technique when you're dealing with an "abnormally" large individual with above average athleticism. We actually signed a handler in JP perfect to groom him, specifically imo. Pep retiring and leaving Tanoh with a year (or 3) of his guidance will only help JP in rebuilding his legacy, and will actually be his personal fingerprint on our club as long as Tanoh stays and is productive.

Value at where he's drafted, athletic potential, work ethic, character, and beyond prototypical size make him the best value at DE than any other, between late 2nd and mid 3rd I reckon, as opposed to a DE earlier in the draft when there are so many other unique talents that fit what we are trying to do available. 

 

I missed Julius Peppers so god damn much it hurts, has hurt, and still a bit of me as a football fan is dead. After hearing how humble and homesick JP seemed to be, drafting Tanoh and giving JP a side project to focus on (since he'll only play roughly 20 snaps a game) will leave a more current and longer lasting imprint on our squad after he retires, and will leave us better off than when he got here.

I don't like the Hype in Tanoh.. I think he was a small school talent who got off on lower talent and being the best player on the field..

My biggest problem is he is to light in the ass.. He's a tall built dude but his legs are skinny and he plays to high.. Jmo you need some junk in the trunk to play in the trenches..

[Big_Down_Under]

2 hours ago, WOW!! said:

I don't like the Hype in Tanoh.. I think he was a small school talent who got off on lower talent and being the best player on the field..

My biggest problem is he is to light in the ass.. He's a tall built dude but his legs are skinny and he plays to high.. Jmo you need some junk in the trunk to play in the trenches..

I agree with you. Small school, light in the ass and playing high were my knocks on him too.

I'm personally enamoured with the thought of John Ross or OJ in the 1st, and I've completely tuned out all DE talent except what I think will be available and makes the most sense for us with our 2nd and 3rd picks.

Tanoh will need time to adapt, but if he can get a lot stronger in the hind quarters and gain some bend and flex...oooh man! Almost 36 inch arms and almost 11inch hands...homeboy can't wear shorts in public, truly gifted with measurables. He weighs 289 lbs, but looks like he needs to add another 20 just to fill out his frame for DE, that's crazy. So much length! In Gman I trust.

 

[WOW!!]

3 minutes ago, Big_Down_Under said:

I agree with you. Small school, light in the ass and playing high were my knocks on him too.

I'm personally enamoured with the thought of John Ross or OJ in the 1st, and I've completely tuned out all DE talent except what I think will be available and makes the most sense for us with our 2nd and 3rd picks.

Tanoh will need time to adapt, but if he can get a lot stronger in the hind quarters and gain some bend and flex...oooh man! Almost 36 inch arms and almost 11inch hands...homeboy can't wear shorts in public, truly gifted with measurables. He weighs 289 lbs, but looks like he needs to add another 20 just to fill out his frame for DE, that's crazy. So much length! In Gman I trust.

 

Not saying it can't happen .. But I've never seen player who can get thick in the trunk.. I don't think you can strenghten your base without losing speed or being more in danger of leg injuries.. i think having big thighs and butt for power is something you're born with...

[pantherj]

5 hours ago, AU-panther said:

                               CJ                                   Thomas

Height                    6'2"                                        6'3'

Weight                   270                                        273

Arm                          ?                                           33"

40yrd                   4.75 sec                            4.69 sec (11th)

Bench                    33                                        30(4th)

Vert                      30" (29th)                               35" (5th)

Broad                    118"                                     126"(5th)

3 cone                 7.51 sec                             6.95 sec (4th)

20 yrd shuttle          ?                                     4.28 sec (3th)

60 yrd shuttle   

For the comparison's sake I decided to try find CJ's combine results.  This was the best I could do https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Johnson_(defensive_end)#cite_note-4

Thomas was close to CJ in the bench and quicker them him in every quickness metric I could find.  I know bench press isn't the end all test for strength but Thomas' vertical and broad jump would be a testament to his lower body power considering the weight he did both of those measurements at.

So Thomas got out benched by a third round draft pick who weighed less? Look for anyone who is excited by Thomas I'm not trying to kill buzz. He doesn't look like a sack artist to me. I'd rather have Fournette.

[Chief Keek]

Solomon Thomas without a doubt, that dude is going to be a monster.

[La Pantera]

2 minutes ago, Promethean Forerunner said:

Lmaooooo, CJ would've been drafted in the 1st round if front offices in the NFL had a magic eight ball, numb nuts.

 

 

He would've  1st rounder if he wouldn't have declared war. 

[AU-panther]

2 hours ago, pantherj said:

So Thomas got out benched by a third round draft pick who weighed less? Look for anyone who is excited by Thomas I'm not trying to kill buzz. He doesn't look like a sack artist to me. I'd rather have Fournette.

But, did CJ finish in the top-5 in every speed and agility drill (outside of the 40, which he was 11th)?  What makes his testing even more impressive is the fact that the DL group at the combine also includes some of the 250lb type college DE's that will be asked to play LBs at the next level.

Maybe he would be better as a 3-4 end but this idea that he doesn't have the quickness to play as a 4-3 end is ludicrous.  He might not have the height and wingspan that some teams covet but he showed the quickness at the combine.