Revisiting Jonathan Allen at 8th pick

[pantherclaw]

2 minutes ago, SJTG4 said:

He will because he can pass block

Lol

[Ja Rhule]

This draft is loaded with DLs and TEs.  Both positions of needs.

[WOW!!]

17 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

Lol

Ppl never understand positional value..

Top of the value chart is always QB, LT, Pass Rusher and cover CB.. You always take them before example OG, InsideLB and RB's...

[WOW!!]

23 minutes ago, SJTG4 said:

He will because he can pass block

So will 10 other RB's in this draft..

[pantherclaw]

11 minutes ago, WOW!! said:

Ppl never understand positional value..

Top of the value chart is always QB, LT, Pass Rusher and cover CB.. You always take them before example OG, InsideLB and RB's...

 

I love Fournette, although I don't believe he is a once in a generation talent.

Positional value is veey important. So is the fact, the the Panthers don't have an elite DE. 

Opportunities to get a premium DE are few and far between.  Fans cry that we don't have a good enough pass rush form our front 4, and then justify ignoring the talent, and opportunity to get a cornerstone, all because of the perceived notion we can't,  and won't continue to add talent to the offense. 

Ultimately, I'll support whomever we end up getting. If I were a betting man,  I'd bet that the Panthers go DE before RB. 

A lot of history supports this view point.

[JawnyBlaze]

No to Allen. He's a 3-4 DE or 4-3 UT. He doesn't have the agility or explosion to excel at DE in a 4-3.  I'd wouldn't dislike Thomas with our first, but he's the only DE other than Garrett I'd really want at 8.  I'd consider McDowell though. He could play 4-3 DE, if his head's on straight. 

[CPF4LIFE]

Honestly i have never been that impressed by Allen. And I do think he is a DT in the league. We should be looking for more athleticsm along the line. Most of our guys are just bull rushers with okay speed. We need a guy who can clear the edge with speed. 

[TheSpecialJuan]

2 hours ago, La Pantera said:

Allen is a great Dlineman. But looks like a LDE in a 4-3. While he is an A+ prospect. I'd rather have a RDE. All of or current DEs are LDEs. Well besides Addison and delaire.

Allen is not your prototypical DE. He's not long and athletic like Clowney or Garrett. He's more of a Michael Bennett type guy. He's not a great athlete but he is a great football player. A good talent evaluator like Gman will immediately recognize this.

[Ja Rhule]

9 minutes ago, TheSpecialJuan said:

Allen is not your prototypical DE. He's not long and athletic like Clowney or Garrett. He's more of a Michael Bennett type guy. He's not a great athlete but he is a great football player. A good talent evaluator like Gman will immediately recognize this.

Bennett is athletic. Look at his off the edge rush.

 

[panther4life]

Just got done watching a few of his games. Here's the link if you'd like to do so yourself. http://draftbreakdown.com/players/jonathan-allen/

I don't see him as a good fit for us. His skill set and physical attributes make him a great candiate to play DT in a 4-3 or even better for him would be to remain as a 3-4 end. 

Im really struggling to find a pass rusher who clearly fits what we need that is also worthy of being the 8th pick.

Soloman Thomas, is definitely a football player as well but he also appears to better suited as a 3-4 end like he's been playing for Stanford. 

Problem is we already have Short and Butler. Both of them already fill the role that Allen would play for us. Thomas may be better suited to transition is a 4-3 DE but hard to gauge how he'd play the role as an edge rusher in a new scheme. 

Barnett's style of play and outside pass rush ability makes him a better fit for our system. It's been a couple weeks since I watched him and probably need to freshen up on it. I just remember being underwhelmed and thought his greatest asset was an incredible first step but needs to improve other areas of his game to be a complete end.

 

 

 

[Salisburysean98]

6 hours ago, Cyberjag said:

Naw, I think he'll take the full ten minutes and savor each sweet second knowing that he's going to get Allen at number eight.

Anyone who thinks that Fournette and a second round DE would help this team more than Allen and a second round RB needs to go watch the LSU/Alabama games again and see which player shined.

I'm not advocating for Forunette, but in all fairness for the sake of an argument. Those Bama players will play in the NFL eventually, and a few of them will be in this draft. LSU has Pocic and one more ? I think? But LSU the rest of the line is pretty chump in comparison to Bamas player caliber. Still I'd be very happy with either, I'm actually on the Allen train more so than Fournette.

[chbright]

33 minutes ago, WOW!! said:

Ppl never understand positional value..

Top of the value chart is always QB, LT, Pass Rusher and cover CB.. You always take them before example OG, InsideLB and RB's...

Meh needs can change that and scheme too. I would say Luke was worth a top 8 pick in just about any draft. Factor in we had a QB and iirc Gross at LT, it made since even with the ghost of Beason still on the team.

 

Pass rushers are now scheme driven, I wouldn't want to use Miller as a base lineman, nor Vic Beasley. They are much more devastating coming from the OLB role in the 3-4 than a 6 or 9 tech with a hand down in the 4-3. Not saying those 2 cannot (as they do at times), but compared to Watt (more 5 tech w/ Texans making him even more impressive), JPP, Jared Allen, its not their best roll. Much like trying Allen as a rusher from the OLB position. Some can like Mack, likely Clowney, Pep, and Watt. But they are honestly transcendent athletes.

Our system isn't straight man, so the need for a top CB isn't the same as say the Jets were with Rex at the helm.

[Clicheking]

Jonathan Allen is dt point blank period, and if we select a dt with out 8th pick I will rage.

[WOW!!]

1 hour ago, chbright said:

Meh needs can change that and scheme too. I would say Luke was worth a top 8 pick in just about any draft. Factor in we had a QB and iirc Gross at LT, it made since even with the ghost of Beason still on the team.

 

Pass rushers are now scheme driven, I wouldn't want to use Miller as a base lineman, nor Vic Beasley. They are much more devastating coming from the OLB role in the 3-4 than a 6 or 9 tech with a hand down in the 4-3. Not saying those 2 cannot (as they do at times), but compared to Watt (more 5 tech w/ Texans making him even more impressive), JPP, Jared Allen, its not their best roll. Much like trying Allen as a rusher from the OLB position. Some can like Mack, likely Clowney, Pep, and Watt. But they are honestly transcendent athletes.

Our system isn't straight man, so the need for a top CB isn't the same as say the Jets were with Rex at the helm.

Agree to disagree .. 

Of course if you're a 4-3 team you don't get a OLB from a 3-4 and play him full time at DE..

That's why i said Pass Rushers instead specific OLB or DE's.. Pass Rusher can be a DT from the inside like Warren Sapp.. 

Pass Rushers in general will always provide more value than MLB..

If you have Jpep and Luke on the board .. You go Jpep everytime..