Revisiting Jonathan Allen at 8th pick

[Mr. Miagi]

If a team really want Short, they would signed him to their offer sheet once when free agency opens. And then we'll receive two 1st rounders as compensation just like how the "non-exclusive" tag says. 

Yall really making things harder than it is. 

KK's trade market is out there for all 31 teams. They know what they have to give up to get him. 

[Toomers]

16 minutes ago, Nails said:

Are they going to get a KK at 15?  Of course not.  A team with an immediate need and the means to do it like the Colts may consider since the tag itself this year is cheaper than his APY will be after this year and the cap is expected to rise.  If they lock him up NOW, bring him home, and don't have to deal with an open market, absolutely that's worth a 1st in their predicament.

   Of course. It's such a reasonable idea that no team ever does it. You think that if it were a smart move, in any way, that maybe GMs would at least try to do it. But they don't. When is the last time it happened? It would be like signing Eric Berry, and giving up our 1st for the right to do it. Would you be willing to do that? From your argument you would. 

[Nails]

1 minute ago, Mr. Miagi said:

If a team really want Short, they would signed him to their offer sheet once when free agency opens. And then we'll receive two 1st rounders as compensation just like how the "non-exclusive" tag says. 

Yall really making things harder than it is. 

KK's trade market is out there for all 31 teams. They know what they have to give up to get him. 

In a dream world, yes, that would make it simple and SWEET.  If the Colts really didn't want to give up multiple picks this year and think they'll be picking in the 20s next year which may add to their incentive, we should hope so.  But teams can agree to terms different than the two 1sts.

[Mr. Miagi]

2 minutes ago, Nails said:

In a dream world, yes, that would make it simple and SWEET.  If the Colts really didn't want to give up multiple picks this year and think they'll be picking in the 20s next year which may add to their incentive, we should hope so.  But teams can agree to terms different than the two 1sts.

Is Indy still playing a 34 or did they switch to 43?

[panthers34]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Miagi said:

I don't think he is. 

I agree. Maybe on first and second down he can play outside but on 3rd down he has to move inside to make an impact. Unfortunately that would keep Bulter and Star off the field most 3rd downs 

[Mr. Miagi]

4 minutes ago, panthers34 said:

I agree. Maybe on first and second down he can play outside but on 3rd down he has to move inside to make an impact. Unfortunately that would keep Bulter and Star off the field most 3rd downs 

Allen is not a good pass rusher. Everybody know that. He's a better run stuffer. 

Somtimes, I feel like a lot of fans don't really watch films on these prospects.

[Nails]

14 minutes ago, Toomers said:

   Of course. It's such a reasonable idea that no team ever does it. You think that if it were a smart move, in any way, that maybe GMs would at least try to do it. But they don't. When is the last time it happened? It would be like signing Eric Berry, and giving up our 1st for the right to do it. Would you be willing to do that? From your argument you would. 

A team has done it.  The Carolina Panthers for Sean Gilbert.  But shhhh, don't tell the Colts, Raiders, other 31, whoever.

For starters not many players are tagged every year and so often the teams with the cap space to sign the tagged guys are also the teams with premium picks they don't want to give up.  Of course, the teams with non-premium picks in the 20s or 30s rarely have the need and cap space.

In this case I look at the Colts and think it makes sense when I look at their utter disaster at DT which was made worse by an arrest this week, their relatively non-premium pick(s), cap situation, and KK is an Indiana boy to boot.

VERY rare all these type things line up.  Not to mention if it's a QB or Von Miller level talent the exclusive tag is used making it all moot anyway.

[WOW!!]

20 minutes ago, OldNorthPowell said:

To each their own. Honestly I believe the league has figured out Shula and he has no answer for it. I was calling out his plays last season before he even called them. What do you think D-Coordinators are thinking? Lack of talent around Cam has been a major problem. We shall see though.

 

Also, it is hard to stop a team when your defense is constantly on the field because the offense could not move the ball enough.

You fix the oline and Shula becomes a genius again.. I don't care to stack up talent when he hasn't been able to fully use the talent he already has...

[Toomers]

1 minute ago, Nails said:

A team has done it.  The Carolina Panthers for Sean Gilbert.  But shhhh, don't tell the Colts, Raiders, other 31, whoever.

For starters not many players are tagged every year and so often the teams with the cap space to sign the tagged guys are also the teams with premium picks.  Of course, the teams with non-premium picks in the 20s or 30s rarely have the need and cap space.

In this case I look at the Colts and think it makes sense when I look at their utter disaster at DT which was made worse by an arrest this week, their relatively non-premium pick(s), cap situation, and KK is an Indiana boy to boot.

VERY rare all these type things line up.  Not to mention if it's a QB or Von Miller level talent the exclusive tag is used making it all moot anyway.

  Great. One example from nearly 20 years ago. That was a disaster for our own team. Yet, teams would be smart to do it again. Unless it's a QB, it will never happen again. Especially since the rookie salary cap made 1st round picks much more valuable. If the Colts were that dumb, I would hope GMan would accept in a second.

[panthers34]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Miagi said:

Allen is not a good pass rusher. Everybody know that. He's a better run stuffer. 

Somtimes, I feel like a lot of fans don't really watch films on these prospects.

12 sacks in 2015 and 10 sacks last year...

22 sacks in two years in the SEC as an interior lineman... sounds like a pretty damn great pass rusher to me. I think you're the one that should watch the film 

[OldNorthPowell]

Just now, WOW!! said:

You fix the oline and Shula becomes a genius again.. I don't care to stack up talent when he hasn't been able to fully use the talent he already has...

We can agree to disagree. Last season plenty of times I watched replays to see NOBODY getting separation. No other tight end threat outside of Olsen. Which is not a huge thing but still a thing. Stewart is hurt off and on every season with no true heir to his throne. We have a lot of problems on offense. The only real issue on defense is safety. We were number 2 in sacks last season. Getting pressure was not an issue. Again Adams is my number one on the Panthers board. Allen is talented but why would you pick Butler last year just to pick Allen this year? You already have KK and Star as well. Allen is not a DE as many have stated. He seems to fit more inside. You can only play but so many DTs and LBs.

[WOW!!]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Miagi said:

Allen is not a good pass rusher. Everybody know that. He's a better run stuffer. 

Somtimes, I feel like a lot of fans don't really watch films on these prospects.

College production and tape says different.. He is alot like Thomas and CJ.. Not a speed rusher but a bull rusher with violent hands.. Able to play inside and out..

 

[Nails]

5 minutes ago, Toomers said:

  Great. One example from nearly 20 years ago. That was a disaster for our own team. Yet, teams would be smart to do it again. Unless it's a QB, it will never happen again. Especially since the rookie salary cap made 1st round picks much more valuable. If the Colts were that dumb, I would hope GMan would accept in a second.

The point here was that if Cooks is garnering a 1st from multiple teams for only one year of cheap salary at a non-premium position, there is most certainly a market for KK, a very attractive one at that.

[Mr. Miagi]

3 minutes ago, panthers34 said:

12 sacks in 2015 and 10 sacks last year...

22 sacks in two years in the SEC as an interior lineman... sounds like a pretty damn great pass rusher to me. I think you're the one that should watch the film 

Yes and he did that in COLLEGE by playing alongside multiple top NFL draft picks. 

 

I could give you 100 names of great college pass rushers whom done nothing or very little in the NFL. 

 

I like Allen. I wouldn't mind him at 8. But like I said everybody know that he's not a great pass rusher. Go ask Mayock and Jeremiah.