Opinions : Will decent draft picks and 2nd tier FA's cut it

[rhyslloyd]

Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is the definition of insanity.


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[GoobyPls]

41 minutes ago, stirs said:

The Patriots have good coaching and Tom Brady. They let their expensive FA's walk and pick up 2nd and 3rd tier guys and turn em into cogs in their machine.  They always draft late in the first.

So, coaching and an accurate QB.  This is the combo that NE uses, not buying up all FA's and high draft picks

Who told you this false narrative?

The patriots are one of the busiest teams in free agency. In 2014 they signed Revis and Browner the two most highly coveted free agent corners. This past offseason they traded for Bennett. They are constantly going after guys like Chad Johnson, Brandon Lloyd and Micheal Floyd.

 

If you go cheap in free agency expect never having back to back winning seasons.

[top dawg]

Unless we don't retain KK via an extension or tag, I would be shocked if we make a big splash in FA, and I don't think it's necessary to get us back into serious contention. Indeed, in my opinion, the only huge splashes to be made in FA are by Berry and JPP. I guess that perhaps an older LT Band-Aid like Whitworth or Vollmer (or trading for Thomas), or something of that nature is arguably a big splash, but I kind of think that at least one mid tier guy (hopefully, two) at LT will get the job done, provided that Oher and Remmers return.

I guess that you can tell that I don't think we're going anywhere without addressing the LT position in FA.

As for safety, I believe there are a few cheaper options after Berry that will send Boston to the bench, like Cyprien, Swearinger, Jefferson, Demps, Michael Thomas, and a couple of other vets that would upgrade us enough to be contenders. I think the same can be said for a nickel cb.

As for DE, I think that re-signing CJ and Addy are the main things. Adding in Pep or the other Mario would make me feel better about things. Along with Ealy, that should be enough.  Unlike some, the idea of an injured JPP doesn't fill me with security. I think he would be a waste of good money, and I fully expect there are going to be players better than him in the draft, and that we will snag one of them.

A lot of people want to whine about the receiving corps, but I saw what the group can do, and I still believe there is untapped potential there. As individuals, you may not like the different parts, but the unit as a whole can be quite good. We are one effective slot receiver and one speed demon away from having plenty. The draft has a few guys, even in the mid rounds that would help us greatly. Zay Jones and Taywann Taylor would be interesting additions. In FA, Kenny Stills, Mike Wallace, Robert Woods and/or Jeremy Kerley would be solid gets at a good price. And let's not forget that we will likely have some potential in Byrd or Garrett. This offseason is going to be interesting as far as receivers go. We'll be able to tell a lot by whom we pick up, but I don't believe we're far away. 

As for RB, Stew is not done, and the draft is deep. Tolbert's upgrade may well be on the roster already in Darrel Young who is still hungry. There is also still Rockhead to look at, if his back is OK. My dream signing is Kyle Juszczyk. If I were going to spend top dollar at a position (which should be relatively cheap), it would be on him. He could play a little H-back and take the pressure off to sign for a Marty Bennett for example. Even if we can't snag him, Luke Wilson and a couple of others would be a marked upgrade to Dickson (whom I expect to be cut before May).

I guess what I'm saying is that it's not going to take breaking the bank to be competitive. I think there is a lot of sneaky value for us in free agency that will bring great returns. Honestly, there may not be great players in FA, but some that will be great for us. The pool has solid depth and more. Gettleman has plenty of money to take advantage, and he will. This will allow him to truly maximize the draft by plucking the best players available in each round. For me, it's the perfect setup. 

I am more concerned with the coaching than the personnel. The talent to be contenders will be there, even before the draft which which should rain a lot of gravy.

[DaveThePanther2008]

Who told you this false narrative?

The patriots are one of the busiest teams in free agency. In 2014 they signed Revis and Browner the two most highly coveted free agent corners. This past offseason they traded for Bennett. They are constantly going after guys like Chad Johnson, Brandon Lloyd and Micheal Floyd.

 

If you go cheap in free agency expect never having back to back winning seasons.

Partially accurate. They have had to because they haven't been lighting it up with their draft picks.

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[pantherclaw]

We can compete with just better excution from our current players. 

Yes we can.

[LinvilleGorge]

Another factor in the Pats' success is the fact that they have consistently played in a pathetically weak division. That's a nice perk and our own division's weakness certainly played a role in us going 15-1 in 2015. It definitely gives you a leg up on the competition when you're virtually guaranteed a playoff spot every year because the rest of your division is stuck in the mud.

[AU-panther]

2 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

Who told you this false narrative?

The patriots are one of the busiest teams in free agency. In 2014 they signed Revis and Browner the two most highly coveted free agent corners. This past offseason they traded for Bennett. They are constantly going after guys like Chad Johnson, Brandon Lloyd and Micheal Floyd.

 

If you go cheap in free agency expect never having back to back winning seasons.

Bennett wasn't much more then Soliai or Lee, and I'm sure they are going to let him go this year.  Perfect example of fans always thinking that the "grass is always greener" when looking at other teams.   Speaking of Bennett I would guess they aren't going to resign him. So adding a $5m TE means you were active in FA but signing a $3m DT or trading for a $3m punter doesn't.  I guess whatever fits the agenda.

How much was Chad Johnson's salary?  Are we talking about big money free agents or big name?  Revis was a one year deal for all intent.  The Patriots are probably the only team in the league that could pull off that kind of deal.  Its a amazing what a good chance at a ring can do for your team.

Patriots very rarely over spend on any player.  Look at the LB they let go this year, this forum would have a fit over something like that.  In reality they are probably the most value oriented team it the league.  Do they occasionally add a big name free agent?  Yes, often at a discount because of their reputation as winners.

If you want to look at big time free agency spenders, teams such as Miami and Washington would be a better example.

I'm not saying we wont spend in free agency this year or we shouldn't , its just that the whole narrative is a bit overplayed around here.

[GoobyPls]

5 hours ago, AU-panther said:

Bennett wasn't much more then Soliai or Lee, and I'm sure they are going to let him go this year.  Perfect example of fans always thinking that the "grass is always greener" when looking at other teams.   Speaking of Bennett I would guess they aren't going to resign him. So adding a $5m TE means you were active in FA but signing a $3m DT or trading for a $3m punter doesn't.  I guess whatever fits the agenda.

How much was Chad Johnson's salary?  Are we talking about big money free agents or big name?  Revis was a one year deal for all intent.  The Patriots are probably the only team in the league that could pull off that kind of deal.  Its a amazing what a good chance at a ring can do for your team.

Patriots very rarely over spend on any player.  Look at the LB they let go this year, this forum would have a fit over something like that.  In reality they are probably the most value oriented team it the league.  Do they occasionally add a big name free agent?  Yes, often at a discount because of their reputation as winners.

If you want to look at big time free agency spenders, teams such as Miami and Washington would be a better example.

I'm not saying we wont spend in free agency this year or we shouldn't , its just that the whole narrative is a bit overplayed around here.

Bennett and Solia are in the same league now? This is perfect example of fan boy panthers trying making it look like we actually spend in FA to stop critism from our front office. Bennett is currently the number 1 TE in free agency, he had 900 yards receiving 2 seasons ago with Cutler. Solia was another bottom of the barrel player no one wanted. You can even point to Amendola who was the best slot receiver in free agency that one year. Again the patriots are ten times more active than the panthers. The last time we signed a well known fee agent was Stephen Davis 

 

And the redskins and panthers are not that far off in record so using a them as an example doesn't work in your favor. Funny how you left out the team who beat us in the SB.

 

Thiers no narrative its fact, we never sign high quality free agents and it hasn't worked in our favor for the better of 20 years. No coveted free agent no super bowl 

 

[CPF4LIFE]

Hell no, but there are plenty of people here that think it will no matter how much we come up short every season.

[raleigh-panther]

22 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Worked in 2015...

Unfortunately our division opponents are a lot better tha. 2015

Panthers aren't blessed with the Patriots weak,division opponents 

Newton is not the same either

[AU-panther]

32 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Bennett and Solia are in the same league now? This is perfect example of fan boy panthers trying making it look like we actually spend in FA to stop critism from our front office. Bennett is currently the number 1 TE in free agency, he had 900 yards receiving 2 seasons ago with Cutler. Solia was another bottom of the barrel player no one wanted. You can even point to Amendola who was the best slot receiver in free agency that one year. Again the patriots are ten times more active than the panthers. The last time we signed a well known fee agent was Stephen Davis 

 

And the redskins and panthers are not that far off in record so using a them as an example doesn't work in your favor. Funny how you left out the team who beat us in the SB.

 

Thiers no narrative its fact, we never sign high quality free agents and it hasn't worked in our favor for the better of 20 years. No coveted free agent no super bowl 

 

I never said Bennett or Soliai are in the same league as players at his point of time.  Going into the season they signed contracts that were fairly close to each other.  If we would have signed Bennett we probably still miss the playoffs and you would be saying we didn't sign anyone. 

The team that beat us in the super bowl didn't beat us because they had better personal from free agency.  They beat us because their personal played better on that day.  We had a lot of players pick a bad day to have a game.  They beat us because Cam missed open receivers, our receivers dropped catchable passes, Cam and our runners fumbled the ball, guys on defense missed tackles they normally don't, Oline missed some blocks, and coaches could have probably called a different game plan.

I'm not saying we shouldn't sign free agents, I personally hope we do, but to use the Patriots as big spenders is a bit of a stretch.  They are one of the most value oriented franchises in the league.  There are times they get name players to join on cheaper them market value deals for a chance to win a ring.  You should actually look up some of the contracts of the player you named, they didn't sign for much more then some of our free agents the past few years.  Browner was about 4m a year and was released after one year. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/brandon-browner-8527/ Not that much more then Cotchery.  Or Lloyd counts as spending but Ted Ginn does not?  Here again whatever fits the agenda.  I guess they had "bigger" names.

A

 

[GoobyPls]

5 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

I never said Bennett or Soliai are in the same league as players at his point of time.  Going into the season they signed contracts that were fairly close to each other.  If we would have signed Bennett we probably still miss the playoffs and you would be saying we didn't sign anyone. 

The team that beat us in the super bowl didn't beat us because they had better personal from free agency.  They beat us because their personal played better on that day.  We had a lot of players pick a bad day to have a game.  They beat us because Cam missed open receivers, our receivers dropped catchable passes, Cam and our runners fumbled the ball, guys on defense missed tackles they normally don't, Oline missed some blocks, and coaches could have probably called a different game plan.

I'm not saying we shouldn't sign free agents, I personally hope we do, but to use the Patriots as big spenders is a bit of a stretch.  They are one of the most value oriented franchises in the league.  There are times they get name players to join on cheaper them market value deals for a chance to win a ring.  You should actually look up some of the contracts of the player you named, they didn't sign for much more then some of our free agents the past few years.  Browner was about 4m a year and was released after one year. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/brandon-browner-8527/ Not that much more then Cotchery.  Or Lloyd counts as spending but Ted Ginn does not?  Here again whatever fits the agenda.  I guess they had "bigger" names.

A

 

Solia and Bennett have never been in the same league. Bennett was coming off 2 of his best season Solia was coming off his 2 worst and we still signed him for no reason. And no if we signed a big name player in a area of need and he doesn't pan out I wouldn't complain, you know why? Cause that means we are at least trying.

 

The Broncos were WAY and I mean way more talented than us. You put both the rosters on a open market and it wouldn't even be close. They had perennial pro bowl players at almost every level and a lot those guys they acquired through free agency. Also going into that season we knew are receivers would struggle and we did nothing to address it.

 

The patriots aren't the biggest money spenders but compared with us they are King Solomon. You really compared Lloyd who got a 20 million dollar contract to Ginn who didn't even get 5 million? And at the time Browner was highly coveted 

 

Also your basing your whole argument around money when I bringing up being coveted. The patriots sign guys that actually have value and other teams want, the panthers sign castoffs nobody wants. Guys like Ginn, Coleman, Cotchery, Cason ext.... zero market interest. 

 

And that that's is why we never have had back to back winning seasons much less a SB

 

[AU-panther]

1 hour ago, GoobyPls said:

Solia and Bennett have never been in the same league. Bennett was coming off 2 of his best season Solia was coming off his 2 worst and we still signed him for no reason. And no if we signed a big name player in a area of need and he doesn't pan out I wouldn't complain, you know why? Cause that means we are at least trying.

 

The Broncos were WAY and I mean way more talented than us. You put both the rosters on a open market and it wouldn't even be close. They had perennial pro bowl players at almost every level and a lot those guys they acquired through free agency. Also going into that season we knew are receivers would struggle and we did nothing to address it.

 

The patriots aren't the biggest money spenders but compared with us they are King Solomon. You really compared Lloyd who got a 20 million dollar contract to Ginn who didn't even get 5 million? And at the time Browner was highly coveted 

 

Also your basing your whole argument around money when I bringing up being coveted. The patriots sign guys that actually have value and other teams want, the panthers sign castoffs nobody wants. Guys like Ginn, Coleman, Cotchery, Cason ext.... zero market interest. 

 

And that that's is why we never have had back to back winning seasons much less a SB

 

Broncos have way more talent?  because they are the other team?  go down the starting lineups of each team and I doubt there would be that much differentce.  Classic example of a fan either thinking their player is better than they really are or worse than they really are.

Lloyd didn't get 20m, got 12 for 3 years and only played one.http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/brandon-lloyd-1288/

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/17871705/report-patriots-reach-agreement-with-wr-brandon-lloyd

If Browner was so highly coveted why did he only sign for 12m for 3 years.

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/121093/closer-look-at-browners-contract and released after a year.

 

 

 

[GoobyPls]

1 hour ago, AU-panther said:

Broncos have way more talent?  because they are the other team?  go down the starting lineups of each team and I doubt there would be that much differentce.  Classic example of a fan either thinking their player is better than they really are or worse than they really are.

Lloyd didn't get 20m, got 12 for 3 years and only played one.http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/brandon-lloyd-1288/

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/17871705/report-patriots-reach-agreement-with-wr-brandon-lloyd

If Browner was so highly coveted why did he only sign for 12m for 3 years.

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/121093/closer-look-at-browners-contract and released after a year.

 

 

 

If you think the panthers had more talent than the broncos in 2015 you are blinded by fanboyism. It's not even up for debate. We had Cam who was the equalizer for all their weapons.

 

Actually Lloyd got a 3 year 20 million dollar contract, he was cut after one season and his contract was backloaded which is what we should do with highly coveted FA