DG gonna start showing people the money?

[rhyslloyd]

Doubtful. Probly just goes home and jerks it to the balance on the statement.


Sent from my iPhone using CarolinaHuddle

[csx]

14 hours ago, EightyNine said:

The issue I have is that he says DG has been instructed to spend...instructed by whom?  JR? He shouldn't be instructed by anyone in this matter.  Let the GM do the job you hired him to do, and if you think you can do it better, than you should hire someone else.  I am not a fan of spending for the sake of spending.  Spending does not equal good, and not spending does not equal bad.  This is on display every year when you see the biggest spenders continuing to fail.  The idea should be to spend wisely, which may require patience.  I'd rather save the money and wait for the right opportunity to spend it, than to be pressured into tying up our money and resources in overly risky investments, which only keeps digging ourselves into a deeper hole.  They key here is that you have to draft well and succeed at finding low cost guys who can be stopgaps.  I think this is the best method for sustained success.

It's just a part time blogger saying words. I wouldn't put too much thought or analysis in to whatever Voth says. It's not like at the end he's obtained some sort of secret inside source 

[MV%doe]

19 hours ago, AU-panther said:

The top 51 rule is only for the offseason.  Once the season starts it is your entire 53 man roster, practice squad, and IR.  IR is the main reason you go into the season with some cushion. There are no guys that contribute that don't count.

Speaking of rookies their total cost is around $7.8m but they will be replacing players that are already counting towards your total cap.  Using a $500k cap cost that would be 8(#of picks) x $500k (approx. value of guys at the bottom of your roster) = $4m.  So $7.8m - $4m = $3.8 which is the amount you need to allocate for your rookies.

current cap space:   $47.4m

players 52 and 53 :      1m

practice squad:            1m

rookies:                       3.8m

cushion:                      5m

 

Total available to spend during this off season: $36.6

Short version:  We have enough cap now to sign some good free agents and resign our core type players over the next few years.

 

We're both are guessing at the numbers, cause they haven't been officially released. So long you agree these are estimates, rough ones. That said let's take your number after all the tricks to make it large as possible.

Your number - 36.6

KK tag - 15

Addison - 8

Remmers - 5 ( regardless of popular opinion, he's going to get paid well)

Norwell - 3.5 ( first round tender, this is cheap cause easily put 8+/- here)

Johnson - 3

Ginn - 2

36.5 - That's ALL your money.

Mainly all that was done is push KK, cj, and norwell into 2018 free agency. Where Turner, Ealy, and KB are waiting. They may not be waiting long cause you only have 5 million in roll-over/ insurance, nope that's all gone too cause it's proven panthers have plenty of IRs each year. For the record panthers went into this season with 20+ million and only have 13 able to pass to this year. Plus by my math, you still need players to fill out the roster. What about berry, jpp, or any other high price FA?? There's nothing leftd!!

Needed - 20 players

Draft - 9 (Dave may trade or cut a late pick, normally has 2 UDFA make the 53)

Chris Scott, amini, Jacobs - 1 ( one should make the team, maybe 2)

Listed above - 6

20-16=4

So now need 4(could be more/less) players and none can count towards the 51st cap number. Maybe Philly brown and Collin Jones will sign for cheap or Dave finds some street FAs to fill out the 53.

There's just not enough money to resign everyone and add a berry or Jeffery or JPP or _______. Plus right now you must plan for next year FAs. So you can get your hopes up all you want, I know better.

[MV%doe]

19 hours ago, The Lobo said:

I get you, but what about cuts? Won't that add a couple mill? 

Sure, but it also creates a hole to fill too. My guess is Dave will ask some form this group -stew, oher, Lee, gano. Either pay cut, contract extension, or get cut. Plus the NFL could increase the overall cap, the official number hasn't been released. Honestly whatever the final numbers are, it's still not going to allow the to resign their own + Berry/Jeffrey and prepare for 2018 free agents. The 50 million is a mirage, giving fans a illusion of #noexcuse stuff.

[Nails]

39 minutes ago, MV%doe said:

Sure, but it also creates a hole to fill too. My guess is Dave will ask some form this group -stew, oher, Lee, gano. Either pay cut, contract extension, or get cut. Plus the NFL could increase the overall cap, the official number hasn't been released. Honestly whatever the final numbers are, it's still not going to allow the to resign their own + Berry/Jeffrey and prepare for 2018 free agents. The 50 million is a mirage, giving fans a illusion of #noexcuse stuff.

This 2018 free agents thing is making my blood boil.  The NFL stands for not for long and this is practically a year to year league.  The stock of KK and KB, among others, has dropped in a year's time.  We got our motherfrickin tail kicked this year after practically punting away 2016 and a proven player/person like Eric Berry at a position of critical need is right in our face.  

Not to say we shouldn't think about the future at all, but the 2018 FA's are obviously not Cam/Luke level of NEED.  This FA period, the draft, UDFA's, potential trades, a possible supplemental draft (where we'd be in the top 10 of a lottery), pre-season cuts, in season trades, the 2017 season, injuries, on-field play, the 2017 COLLEGE season, and 2018 combine, could all affect the 2018 FA's in some way/shape/form.  If possible, SIGN Eric Berry.

[MV%doe]

2 minutes ago, Nails said:

This 2018 free agents thing is making my blood boil.  The NFL stands for not for long and this is practically a year to year league.  The stock of KK and KB, among others, has dropped in a year's time.  We got our motherfrickin tail kicked this year after practically punting away 2016 and a proven player/person like Eric Berry at a position of critical need is right in our face.  

Not to say we shouldn't think about the future at all, but the 2018 FA's are obviously not Cam/Luke level of NEED.  This FA period, the draft, potential trades, a possible supplemental draft, pre-season cuts, in season trades, the 2017 season, injuries, and on-field play could all affect the 2018 FA's in some way/shape/form.  If possible, SIGN Eric Berry.

If you don't plan for, you'll pay for it. If they didn't plan for it, no way to sign Cam or Luke. Sure KB, Turner, or norwell could go otah or just suck. It's foolish not to prepare to pay young talented players cause you're all-in each year. Sorry if it makes your blood boil, but it's the intelligence way of running a NFL team. Please go look at the saints and see how great it is going for it. They've been going for it for years and paying the price.

I'm still pissed about the season and want berry too, but sustained success is the goal.

[Nails]

23 minutes ago, MV%doe said:

If you don't plan for, you'll pay for it. If they didn't plan for it, no way to sign Cam or Luke. Sure KB, Turner, or norwell could go otah or just suck. It's foolish not to prepare to pay young talented players cause you're all-in each year. Sorry if it makes your blood boil, but it's the intelligence way of running a NFL team. Please go look at the saints and see how great it is going for it. They've been going for it for years and paying the price.

I'm still pissed about the season and want berry too, but sustained success is the goal.

Balance is key.  Know when to hold em/know when to fold/em.  The Saints obviously didn't have the balance, and right now, we don't either.  Cameron is right, Berry is the player and this is the time.  No sane reason that KB, Turner and/or Norwell couldn't be resigned next year either assuming Berry is the only splash.  And if not, oh well.  WR and guards are two of the easier positions to find in football.

[MV%doe]

10 minutes ago, Nails said:

Balance is key.  Know when to hold em/know when to fold/em.  The Saints obviously didn't have the balance, and right now, we don't either.  Cameron is right, Berry is the player and this is the time.  No sane reason the Turner and Norwell couldn't be resigned next year either assuming Berry is the only splash.  And if not, oh well.  WR and guards are two of the easier positions to find in football.

So we All-in, now balance??? im confused...... Better go listen to that awesome gambler song for some clarity! I do understand, believe it or not, I agreed with the saints. They are different than the panthers though. Brees is in the final stages and he's their best chance at winning. Cam is still in his prime, I want to be competitive in three years during this prime era. Plus I don't want to trade berry for KK+norwell+Turner. KC had a beastly DL, panthers would not with berry being picked over KK. If the panthers somehow signed KK and berry, RR would be forced to play practice squad-level player at important positions. 

I hope you don't go on a killing spree, when berry signs the largest safety contract in NFL history with a different team.

[Nails]

3 minutes ago, MV%doe said:

So we All-in, now balance??? im confused...... Better go listen to that awesome gambler song for some clarity! I do understand, believe it or not, I agreed with the saints. They are different than the panthers though. Brees is in the final stages and he's their best chance at winning. Cam is still in his prime, I want to be competitive in three years during this prime era. Plus I don't want to trade berry for KK+norwell+Turner. KC had a beastly DL, panthers would not with berry being picked over KK. If the panthers somehow signed KK and berry, RR would be forced to play practice squad-level player at important positions. 

I hope you don't go on a killing spree, when berry signs the largest safety contract in NFL history with a different team.

So is SS not an important position?  Was Boston's effort vs the Falcons not enough?  Was Vernon Butler not taken in the 1st last year which means a 5th year option in 2020?  Does he not play DT?  Was 6-10 not enough?  And is KK not likely to make more than Berry based on positional value?  How then could Berry=trading KK, Turner, AND Norwell???

[AU-panther]

6 hours ago, MV%doe said:

We're both are guessing at the numbers, cause they haven't been officially released. So long you agree these are estimates, rough ones. That said let's take your number after all the tricks to make it large as possible.

Your number - 36.6

KK tag - 15

Addison - 8

Remmers - 5 ( regardless of popular opinion, he's going to get paid well)

Norwell - 3.5 ( first round tender, this is cheap cause easily put 8+/- here)

Johnson - 3

Ginn - 2

36.5 - That's ALL your money.

Mainly all that was done is push KK, cj, and norwell into 2018 free agency. Where Turner, Ealy, and KB are waiting. They may not be waiting long cause you only have 5 million in roll-over/ insurance, nope that's all gone too cause it's proven panthers have plenty of IRs each year. For the record panthers went into this season with 20+ million and only have 13 able to pass to this year. Plus by my math, you still need players to fill out the roster. What about berry, jpp, or any other high price FA?? There's nothing leftd!!

Needed - 20 players

Draft - 9 (Dave may trade or cut a late pick, normally has 2 UDFA make the 53)

Chris Scott, amini, Jacobs - 1 ( one should make the team, maybe 2)

Listed above - 6

20-16=4

So now need 4(could be more/less) players and none can count towards the 51st cap number. Maybe Philly brown and Collin Jones will sign for cheap or Dave finds some street FAs to fill out the 53.

There's just not enough money to resign everyone and add a berry or Jeffery or JPP or _______. Plus right now you must plan for next year FAs. So you can get your hopes up all you want, I know better.

Fill out the roster?  The 47.7m I listed was based off of 51 people on the roster.  There is actually a calculator on overthecap.com that you can do all of this on.  http://overthecap.com/calculator/carolina-panthers/

For the heck of it: (not looking to argue amounts, just for illustration)

KK - tagged

Remmers - 3/15m

Norwell - 5/40m

Addison - 4/32m

CJ - 3/21m

Ginn - 2/8m

plus 2 FA-

Berry - 5/70m

Reiff - 5/50m

That puts us at $9m space, which is a little less then I would like:

Practice Squad -     $1m

Rookies -               $3.8m

Players 52 and 53 -$1m

Cushion -                $5m 

                              $11m

 

As you can see would be nice to have about $11m left.  Chances are we will pick up $2m in cuts.

So we tagged Kk, resigned Remmers, Norwell, Addison, CJ, Ginn and added 2 expensive FA.  Also fielded a team of 53 players and paid for our rookies.  Also I probably went high on some of my numbers.

That also leaves $32m next year which is good because Turner, Star, and  Ealy are all free agents.  If you want to resign them a year early that would cut into your $11m by about $5m so you would need to either cut someone else or pay some of the others less.

Who exactly is left that we need to resign this year? 

I've been quick to defend the front office not spending in the past but we are a point now that the math works to be spending

I'm not saying to spend just to spend but if the right opportunity presents itself we have the resources to pursue it.

 

 

 

[Nails]

9 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Fill out the roster?  The 47.7m I listed was based off of 51 people on the roster.  There is actually a calculator on overthecap.com that you can do all of this on.  http://overthecap.com/calculator/carolina-panthers/

For the heck of it: (not looking to argue amounts, just for illustration)

KK - tagged

Remmers - 3/15m

Norwell - 5/40m

Addison - 4/32m

CJ - 3/21m

Ginn - 2/8m

plus 2 FA-

Berry - 5/70m

Reiff - 5/50m

That puts us at $9m space, which is a little less then I would like:

Practice Squad -     $1m

Rookies -               $3.8m

Players 52 and 53 -$1m

Cushion -                $5m 

                              $11m

 

As you can see would be nice to have about $11m left.  Chances are we will pick up $2m in cuts.

So we tagged Kk, resigned Remmers, Norwell, Addison, CJ, Ginn and added 2 expensive FA.  Also fielded a team of 53 players and paid for our rookies.  Also I probably went high on some of my numbers.

That also leaves $32m next year which is good because Turner, Star, and  Ealy are all free agents.  If you want to resign them a year early that would cut into your $11m by about $5m so you would need to either cut someone else or pay some of the others less.

Who exactly is left that we need to resign this year? 

I've been quick to defend the front office not spending in the past but we are a point now that the math works to be spending

I'm not saying to spend just to spend but if the right opportunity presents itself we have the resources to pursue it.

 

 

 

Good post, and you didn't just go high, you went HIGH on those estimates.

[MV%doe]

On 2/18/2017 at 5:55 PM, Nails said:

So is SS not an important position?  Was Boston's effort vs the Falcons not enough?  Was Vernon Butler not taken in the 1st last year which means a 5th year option in 2020?  Does he not play DT?  Was 6-10 not enough?  And is KK not likely to make more than Berry based on positional value?  How then could Berry=trading KK, Turner, AND Norwell???

You seemed to be emotionally tied to berry, Im trying to help. In your former posting, it seemed getting berry at any cost, even if it means losing Turner, norwell, and KK. JMO on berry, he will ask of the moon and get it. NFL is going through a nba-like increase in cap space, that's greatly in any elite FAs favor that hits the open market. I believe teams will offer berry the richest safety contract in history, 13+ mill per with a huge signing bonus. I'm also fairly sure the panthers already know this and are not in the race. Chiefs still could tag him, it's not a crazy idea. Lastly if you pay a outsider and not one of your know, that creates problems among the players. I don't see berry and KK as panthers, but miracles do happen.

[Nails]

23 minutes ago, MV%doe said:

You seemed to be emotionally tied to berry, Im trying to help. In your former posting, it seemed getting berry at any cost, even if it means losing Turner, norwell, and KK. JMO on berry, he will ask of the moon and get it. NFL is going through a nba-like increase in cap space, that's greatly in any elite FAs favor that hits the open market. I believe teams will offer berry the richest safety contract in history, 13+ mill per with a huge signing bonus. I'm also fairly sure the panthers already know this and are not in the race. Chiefs still could tag him, it's not a crazy idea. Lastly if you pay a outsider and not one of your know, that creates problems among the players. I don't see berry and KK as panthers, but miracles do happen.

Don't disagree with most of that but I don't see Berry causing problems, and in fact, I think every player on our team would be energized throughout offseason workouts with the thought he is ours.  I'm not deeply emotionally tied to Berry but I follow high school recruiting as well, moreso a decade ago than today.  I recall Berry then, and, what can you say, he's a beast, always has been.  He beat our team and our biggest rival practically by himself in 2016.  I'd give him what he wants as I see it as a perfect match of player and team coming together in 2017.  We'll see.

[MV%doe]

20 hours ago, AU-panther said:

Fill out the roster?  The 47.7m I listed was based off of 51 people on the roster.  There is actually a calculator on overthecap.com that you can do all of this on.  http://overthecap.com/calculator/carolina-panthers/

For the heck of it: (not looking to argue amounts, just for illustration)

KK - tagged

Remmers - 3/15m

Norwell - 5/40m

Addison - 4/32m

CJ - 3/21m

Ginn - 2/8m

plus 2 FA-

Berry - 5/70m

Reiff - 5/50m

That puts us at $9m space, which is a little less then I would like:

Practice Squad -     $1m

Rookies -               $3.8m

Players 52 and 53 -$1m

Cushion -                $5m 

                              $11m

 

As you can see would be nice to have about $11m left.  Chances are we will pick up $2m in cuts.

So we tagged Kk, resigned Remmers, Norwell, Addison, CJ, Ginn and added 2 expensive FA.  Also fielded a team of 53 players and paid for our rookies.  Also I probably went high on some of my numbers.

That also leaves $32m next year which is good because Turner, Star, and  Ealy are all free agents.  If you want to resign them a year early that would cut into your $11m by about $5m so you would need to either cut someone else or pay some of the others less.

Who exactly is left that we need to resign this year? 

I've been quick to defend the front office not spending in the past but we are a point now that the math works to be spending

I'm not saying to spend just to spend but if the right opportunity presents itself we have the resources to pursue it.

 

 

 

I'll checkout that calculator. A fast look at your numbers, they seem to add up way more than the space allows. Unless you use some signing bonus tricks to spread out those giant contracts. Plus if CJ  wants 3/21, bu-bye. Forget the numbers for a second, say the panthers have more than enough space. What's the odds that berry, relif, plus KK tag happens? Or even solo berry and kk tag?