Peppers could be coming back

[RoaringRiot]

15 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

JPP is the obvious choice. 

There are a lot of people on here that don't remember the end of the peppers saga. I need to make a refresher thread....

The price difference between Pep and JPP is going to be quite substantial. The difference in their level of play doesn't come close to matching that difference.

[electro's horse]

6 minutes ago, RoaringRiot said:

The price difference between Pep and JPP is going to be quite substantial. The difference in their level of play doesn't come close to matching that difference.

who gives a poo

the panthers have 40 million dollars in cap space and it cant suit up and rush the QB. 

[RoaringRiot]

4 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

who gives a poo

the panthers have 40 million dollars in cap space and it cant suit up and rush the QB. 

Well....because for 1) I think overpaying players is always a bad idea and 2) I think resigning CJ and signing Pep while drafting one or two DEs is a much smarter play from a position and depth upgrade position.

No reason to get back into cap hell just because there is plenty of money. Use the money more wisely to fill other holes. 

[electro's horse]

Charles Johnson is toast and can't stay healthy. Peppers could fall off a cliff at any moment, and never played hard when he was here to begin with.

Addison needs replacing too because good lord he's going to get overpaid for a one year performance.

Paying one free agent does not send the Panthers into cap hell. Stop with the false dichotomies. The Panthers have enough cap space to both sign a FA DE and extend KK without breaking a sweat. 

[RoaringRiot]

3 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Charles Johnson is toast and can't stay healthy. Peppers could fall off a cliff at any moment, and never played hard when he was here to begin with.

Addison needs replacing too because good lord he's going to get overpaid for a one year performance.

Paying one free agent does not send the Panthers into cap hell. Stop with the false dichotomies. The Panthers have enough cap space to both sign a FA DE and extend KK without breaking a sweat. 

Overpaying players is how you get into cap hell. And it never, ever makes any sense. Ever.

 

[Pimpdaddy]

...i'd rather they sign Al Sharpton instead.

[electro's horse]

10 minutes ago, RoaringRiot said:

Overpaying players is how you get into cap hell. And it never, ever makes any sense. Ever.

 

what is overpaying? relative to what? the need and market demand? 

i'd say spending a dime on a player drafted 15 years ago is overpaying.

[RoaringRiot]

5 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

what is overpaying? relative to what? the need and market demand? 

i'd say spending a dime on a player drafted 15 years ago is overpaying.

What it appears JPP is going to be seeking compared to Pep vs his production compared to Pep vs our needs for depth at the DE position vs the value of having Pep and CJ on short, smaller contracts vs taking advantage of drafting young talent in this year's draft as a longterm solution (where there appears to be some quality depth at DE) vs being able to spend more on the OL and/or secondary. 

Personally I would rather have JPP, Pep, and CJ. I just think JPP is going to command (and get paid) way over his value to where it won't make sense. Therefore, discussing other options (like Pep) is more realistic. 

[electro's horse]

1 minute ago, RoaringRiot said:

What it appears JPP is going to be seeking compared to Pep vs his production compared to Pep vs our needs for depth at the DE position vs the value of having Pep and CJ on short, smaller contracts vs taking advantage of drafting young talent in this year's draft as a longterm solution (where there appears to be some quality depth at DE) vs being able to spend more on the OL and/or secondary. 

Personally I would rather have JPP, Pep, and CJ. I just think JPP is going to command (and get paid) way over his value to where it won't make sense. Therefore, discussing other options (like Pep) is more realistic. 

who the hell is talking about depth? The Panthers right now do not have a single DE on roster worth mentioning. Addison and Johnson are both free agents. 

Addison is probably gone, I'm fine with that. Johnson is toast and shouldn't be counted on. You don't need depth, you need starters. 

Betting on Johnson and Peppers is the defensive end equivalent of counting on Oher and Remmers. 

Stop making this a this or that cap situation. The panthers have more cap space than almost anyone else, and are in absolutely no danger of "cap hell," whatever you think that means. 

they can afford a free agent. 

if your plan for the panthers at a position where they literally don't have players is to count on a 16th year veteran, a player with a hamstring that tears when he walks down stairs, and a rookie who may or may not be drafted, your plan is poo

[RoaringRiot]

13 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

who the hell is talking about depth? The Panthers right now do not have a single DE on roster worth mentioning. Addison and Johnson are both free agents. 

Addison is probably gone, I'm fine with that. Johnson is toast and shouldn't be counted on. You don't need depth, you need starters. 

Betting on Johnson and Peppers is the defensive end equivalent of counting on Oher and Remmers. 

Stop making this a this or that cap situation. The panthers have more cap space than almost anyone else, and are in absolutely no danger of "cap hell," whatever you think that means. 

they can afford a free agent. 

if your plan for the panthers at a position where they literally don't have players is to count on a 16th year veteran, a player with a hamstring that tears when he walks down stairs, and a rookie who may or may not be drafted, your plan is poo

I'm talking about depth. Depth was a huge problem for the Panthers at the DE position this past season. Your Oher comparison is interesting considering the OL completely fell apart once he went out and Remmers had to be moved to LT because there was no OL depth. 

Just because JPP is a sexy name you don't overpay him when his production is just as good (or bad) as the 37 year old Pep - who will be a ton cheaper and will demand a shorter contract. Neither is a good longterm solution - one just will be a ton cheaper and allow the team to address other holes. 

I'm not making this a cap situation, my man, so you can stop saying that now. I understand the Panthers cap position very well. What I am saying is misusing funds by overpaying players because of need and because of the perceived value that their agent and teams willing to overpay for them put on them is a stupid move no matter how much cap space you have. 

I'm also saying we should be realistic here. What percentage chance do we have of GMan overpaying a FA? Maybe slightly better at a DE position since he values them more than other positions but still not very good. So again, that's why I am saying it's worth looking at Pep and other options that make more sense than using who is going to be the most coveted DE in the FA market as the example of an alternative solution. 

But if we're just going to talk about who we want on the line, then yeah I'm with you. Let's go pay JPP a ton of money and not worry about it. I would love to see that guy here. But from what I've been hearing CJ and Pep are their main targets (haven't heard either way about Mario, actually).

 

[Bronn]

Our DE help can come without breaking the bank. I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Sign Andre Branch and Devin Taylor, re-sign Addison on a hometown discount, and I dunno about CJ... Keep Ealy, Horton, and Delaire around for camp.

Draft a decent DE wherever one falls for us in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd.

We have a rotational D-Line. If you have a couple guys like Branch and Taylor in there from time to time to solely provide pass rush help on the edge, you're pretty good. CJ just really didn't help much in that department, and Ealy and everyone else not named Mario Addison just didn't really get anything. Branch and Taylor have both been spot starters, but are better suited in situational roles, and they can excel there.

If we can keep KK, we'll be pretty strong rotationally up the gut, too.

It would be pretty cool and nostalgic to get Pep back in town and even have him be a situational pass rusher as well, but he's not a starter anymore. If he'd come here at vet minimum or close to it, then I'm all for it. But I'm not going to go crazy and hope like hell he does. It's the same as JPP. People are jumping all over themselves saying we need to go out and sign him or someone of his cost. That's absurd. You don't spend money like that and be a successful team. We aren't the Redskins, people. We could get Branch, Taylor, and another one or two DEs for the price it would take to get JPP. Be real.

If we could end up with Branch/Taylor, Short/Butler, Star/Butler, Addison/Branch/Taylor on every down, we'd already be in good shape. Throw in Ealy and/or a rookie or another decent FA add and we'll be gold.

[RoaringRiot]

I can buy that @Bronn

Edit: Other than the Addison discount. That ain't happening. 

[The Lobo]

1 hour ago, electro's horse said:

Charles Johnson is toast and can't stay healthy. Peppers could fall off a cliff at any moment, and never played hard when he was here to begin with.

Addison needs replacing too because good lord he's going to get overpaid for a one year performance.

Paying one free agent does not send the Panthers into cap hell. Stop with the false dichotomies. The Panthers have enough cap space to both sign a FA DE and extend KK without breaking a sweat. 

I get what you are sayin, that's why I feel like we will draft a de in the first or second and sign a crafty vet at de.

[electro's horse]

39 minutes ago, RoaringRiot said:

I'm talking about depth. Depth was a huge problem for the Panthers at the DE position this past season. Your Oher comparison is interesting considering the OL completely fell apart once he went out and Remmers had to be moved to LT because there was no OL depth. 

Just because JPP is a sexy name you don't overpay him when his production is just as good (or bad) as the 37 year old Pep - who will be a ton cheaper and will demand a shorter contract. Neither is a good longterm solution - one just will be a ton cheaper and allow the team to address other holes. 

I'm not making this a cap situation, my man, so you can stop saying that now. I understand the Panthers cap position very well. What I am saying is misusing funds by overpaying players because of need and because of the perceived value that their agent and teams willing to overpay for them put on them is a stupid move no matter how much cap space you have. 

I'm also saying we should be realistic here. What percentage chance do we have of GMan overpaying a FA? Maybe slightly better at a DE position since he values them more than other positions but still not very good. So again, that's why I am saying it's worth looking at Pep and other options that make more sense than using who is going to be the most coveted DE in the FA market as the example of an alternative solution. 

But if we're just going to talk about who we want on the line, then yeah I'm with you. Let's go pay JPP a ton of money and not worry about it. I would love to see that guy here. But from what I've been hearing CJ and Pep are their main targets (haven't heard either way about Mario, actually).

 

Depth implies you have starters in place. The Panthers do not have starters in place. The offensive line fell apart last year because Oher went out, remmers switched over, and they effectively lost two starters. Right now, the Panthers don't even have THAT luxury at defensive end. 

As far as production, Pierre Paul was the 5th ranked 4-3 defensive end in the nfl this year, and that's WITH missing 5 games with a sports hernia. Peppers was a situational pass rusher who doesn't even put his hand in the ground anymore. Do you even watch football?

You haven't shut up about the cap. When you talk about "cap hell" you are making it a cap issue. That isn't difficult for you to understand, is it?

Yes, JPP is coveted because he's good. Bad players like Charles Johnson are not coveted because they are bad. Peppers would have to come off the bench in Green Bay because he's old. You have to pay for good players. 

The team has said nothing about who they prefer. Anything about peppers is pure speculation floated by the observer that dumb panthers fans are talking themselves into liking and defending (like you) because that's how people function. Charles Johnson has said he will only play with the Panthers, because he has absolutely no other offers. Because he's hurt and not good. 

Like your strategy of just getting some average players and draft a dude basically rests on blowing free agency out of the water and drafting a rookie of the year candidate and you don't even know who the players draftable areaghahgaghahg why do i care why do i argue with idiots like you