KK wants 17 million a year?

[Verge]

4 years 60 million, make it happen.

[AU-panther]

55 minutes ago, pantherphan96 said:

1st year tag would be around $13.651 million/year (last year's number, maybe a little higher) and the second year would be 120% of that so just under 16,500,000.

basically you would get 2 years for $30,000,000 so around 15/year, right around where Gettleman was willing to offer him last year.

then you can let him get paid a 5 year 80-90 million deal by some other team who will spend for a 30 year old DT. we can sign Star long term for cheaper and Butler will be groomed as a replacement.

I undertstand that.  My point was you could do a 5yr/80m deal and cut him after two years and depending on the structure the 2 year cost would be close to the same as 2 years of the tag.  Hence the reason you very rarely see double tags.  Also that allows you the option of paying him for 3 more years if you want.

[pantherphan96]

2 hours ago, AU-panther said:

I undertstand that.  My point was you could do a 5yr/80m deal and cut him after two years and depending on the structure the 2 year cost would be close to the same as 2 years of the tag.  Hence the reason you very rarely see double tags.  Also that allows you the option of paying him for 3 more years if you want.

true but if you cut him after 2 years you have to deal with some amount of dead cap space.

[LinvilleGorge]

10 hours ago, stbugs said:

That's the reason I hope we can work it out. He isn't young like Cox was. The tag will be nice $$$, but if he shows any decline in 2017, he'll have a tough time getting a big contract after the tag at 29.


Sent from my iPhone using CarolinaHuddle

So... you'd rather us be saddled to a huge, cap restricting deal in that scenario? Not me. If KK gets tagged, he and is family are already set for life if he's smart with his money. I won't feel bad for him.

[AU-panther]

10 hours ago, pantherphan96 said:

true but if you cut him after 2 years you have to deal with some amount of dead cap space.

True, but you have a cheaper cap cost in year one and two so it can work out close to the same.

Cap cost if you double tag:

2017 - 13.6m

2018 - 16.2m

Total cap cost $39.8m

Theoretical cap cost, depending on structure, of 5yr/80m deal for two years then player is cut:

2017 - 5m

2018 - 10m

2019 - dead money cap charge of $15m

Total cost is about the same for two years of service.

 

[Darvinsun]

I think we should keep him meaning pay him..but it would have to be based on performance and not a boat load of upfront money.  At some point you have to decide what position is of value..if you say front 7 then you need to pay your people accordingly and do ot so both sides get what they want..thats why you are the GM.  Anybody can get a rental and some rentals are good but eventually you run out and have to become an owner because renting begins to get tiring, and inconvenient. When something or someone is good you keep it. You don't just give it away because there is no guarantee that the next person or thing will be good..you have a proven piece keep it it works well with what you have..until you can no longer afford it and your replacement is ready to pick up where he left off. 

[CPantherKing]

And the decline continues.

Vernon Butler is a definite downgrade from KK. The LBs will hate this in 2017.

Need to sign KK to allow the Panthers to actually build a defense instead of just plugging holes with lesser players and hope for a better outcome.

[Soul Rebel]

On 1/24/2017 at 5:31 AM, AU-panther said:

True, but you have a cheaper cap cost in year one and two so it can work out close to the same.

Cap cost if you double tag:

2017 - 13.6m

2018 - 16.2m

Total cap cost $39.8m

Theoretical cap cost, depending on structure, of 5yr/80m deal for two years then player is cut:

2017 - 5m

2018 - 10m

2019 - dead money cap charge of $15m

Total cost is about the same for two years of service.

 

Help me understand why KK would do this?  $15MM over 2 years and then he knows the business of it, and will be a 30-year old DT that is still looking for his payday.

Unless, you are thinking of a signing bonus up front at like $25M + the $5M in '17 + the $10M in '18 = $40MM guaranteed.

[AU-panther]

4 hours ago, Soul Rebel said:

Help me understand why KK would do this?  $15MM over 2 years and then he knows the business of it, and will be a 30-year old DT that is still looking for his payday.

Unless, you are thinking of a signing bonus up front at like $25M + the $5M in '17 + the $10M in '18 = $40MM guaranteed.

I'm thinking salary bonus but the cap hits for 2017 and 2018 include the prorated amounts of the signing bonus, so would be less then 40m guaranteed.

5yr/$80m with $25m signing bonus:

contract table could possible look like:

               Salary      Bonus    Cap Hit            Dead Money

2017         1M           5m            6m

2018          5m          5m           10m

2019         17m         5m                                    15m

2020         18m         5m

2021         19m         5m

If he was cut after the second year you would have accounted for 6m in 2017, 10m in 2018, and then you would have a 15m dead money charge in the 2019.  So $31m for 2 years of service.

[unicar15]

No way that happens with Star and Butler on the squad. Butler was flashing at the end of the year. I'd much rather get him more snaps and upgrade safety with Berry since it looks like Adams isn't going to be there. 

[RumHam]

This fuging franchise needs to stop being fuging cheap. We have the money to sign him and more. If this offense goes unattended in the offseason, i'm done. What this franchise will do to Cam Newton is like the best weed ever falling out of your pocket in a gas station bathroom.