I feel like Jonathan Stewart may restructure

[CRA]

9 hours ago, Lasus83 said:

Tolbert is still a good run blocker. We just need him blocking and not carrying the ball. I'm okay with him catching some passes to.

Sent from my SM-G930P using CarolinaHuddle mobile app
 

still? I must have missed when he was a good run blocker.

he use to be a good multi purpose  RB/HB.  Tolbert never made a Pro Bowl for his full back duties...he made them accumulating production as a RB/HB.  

[MHS831]

I still say the research works against him----RBs at 30 underperform their peak years (26-7) by 40%.  I realize the OL was not always great, but Stew did have a decent blocking TE and a QB whose running ability froze LBs and DEs.  He underperformed his contract this season, averaging 3.8 yards per carry.  In addition, he was the feature back on a running football team and did not get to 1000 yards.  65  yards per game gets you to 1000 if you stay healthy---another key  factor.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/age-of-decline-rb1/

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/123542/inside-slant-running-back-cliff-after-age-27

http://www.footballperspective.com/a-closer-look-at-running-back-aging-patterns/

I say that Gettlemen won't care about the house or the strollers, that he will make a business decision. If Hurney were here, he would be negotiating a 3-year extension, but DG ain't Hurney.

[Paintballr]

I don't see us drafting Fournette with so much draft talent at other positions, BUT a backfield of Fournette and Stewart would be frightening for opposing defenses, especially late in games.

Real question is do you trust Shula enough to create a game plan and adjust with both of those at the same time


Sent from my iPhone using CarolinaHuddle

[ThPantherFan]

I would love it if he would do that.  Don't see him getting a better deal elsewhere.  We still need to draft an RB.

[MHS831]

7 minutes ago, ThPantherFan said:

I would love it if he would do that.  Don't see him getting a better deal elsewhere.  We still need to draft an RB.

http://www.footballperspective.com/a-closer-look-at-running-back-aging-patte

https://www.profootballfocus.com/age-of-decline-rb1/

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/123542/inside-slant-running-back-cliff-after-age-27

I agree with you--and I am glad you added the part I bolded above.

Not being smart, but it is very dangerous to estimate a RBs future performance based on past production when they are over 30.  They decline at a rate of about 20% per year..  I just don't see it as a frugal or smart move.  Sure, he has a flash or two in him--like Deangelo showed in Pittsburgh---or not.  The injury history, the age---nothing suggests we got a gem in the rough here. Take the numbers from this season, multiply by 0.8, and you get an estimate of his expected production based on other backs in the same situation. 

 

[CarolinaSock]

Cam was not freezing anyone this year in the read option. Defenses we're selling out on Stewart because Cam basically stopped keeping the ball.

[thefuzz]

Cap hit 8.5, dead cap 3.5.

 

Depending on how the draft sets up, he is in line for a restructure/pay cut.  If he doesn't agree, I can see us parting ways and him not making much more somewhere else.

Stew isn't as good of a runner any longer, but he is a vet and knows how to pass protect....one of the main reasons that rookie RB's don't always see the field right away.

 

Would love to see him restructure and add another year to the deal, since essentially 18 is voided, and front load the deal, since we have so much cap room.

[grimesgoat]

There is some good stuff in this thread, but I just wanted to throw out some numbers regarding our options.  We have to tie together our emotions for Stew with the cold hard financial facts.

Stew is due to make 5.5 mil. in 2017.  His cap hit is 8.25 due to prior bonuses that are pro-rated over the length of the contract.  His cap hit is therefore 8.25 mil.  If we do nothing and he is cut next year, there will still be 1.5 mil in cap hit,  This scenario costs us 9.75 in cap for 1 year of service.

If we cut Stew this year, we don't pay his 5.5 mil salary, but all the remaining bonus gets pushed forward.  We save 5.5 mil in cash, but the cap hit (dead money) is 3.5 mil and we need to find a #1 running back.  The cap hit reduces to 2.0 mil if the cut is designated "after June 1".  But before we jump on the after-June 1 band wagon, I should point out if we have to cut Oher as well.  I believe we only get 1 "after June 1" designee and an Oher "after June 1" cut actually reduces our cap hit by 2.0 mil. vs. stews 1.5 mil. We may opt to make him the "after June 1" cut if he cannot come back.

Obviously, like CJ, we can cut Stew and maybe he will re-sign for 2 mil or so.  Depending on when he is cut (pre or post June 1) our cap hit for Stew would be 5.5 mil or 4.0 mil.

There are also restructure scenarios that make sense if you believe Stew can play more than 1 more year.  These are better than the above, but many have argued he's too old to have around anymore.

[Malt Liquor]

Stewart will be cut or he will restructure his contract. Therefore will have no choice but to draft Fournette or Cook with the 8th pick in the NFL draft. We are a defense/run first team. If we can't run the football we might as well forfeit the 2017 season.

[Bronn]

1 hour ago, grimesgoat said:

There is some good stuff in this thread, but I just wanted to throw out some numbers regarding our options.  We have to tie together our emotions for Stew with the cold hard financial facts.

Stew is due to make 5.5 mil. in 2017.  His cap hit is 8.25 due to prior bonuses that are pro-rated over the length of the contract.  His cap hit is therefore 8.25 mil.  If we do nothing and he is cut next year, there will still be 1.5 mil in cap hit,  This scenario costs us 9.75 in cap for 1 year of service.

If we cut Stew this year, we don't pay his 5.5 mil salary, but all the remaining bonus gets pushed forward.  We save 5.5 mil in cash, but the cap hit (dead money) is 3.5 mil and we need to find a #1 running back.  The cap hit reduces to 2.0 mil if the cut is designated "after June 1".  But before we jump on the after-June 1 band wagon, I should point out if we have to cut Oher as well.  I believe we only get 1 "after June 1" designee and an Oher "after June 1" cut actually reduces our cap hit by 2.0 mil. vs. stews 1.5 mil. We may opt to make him the "after June 1" cut if he cannot come back.

Obviously, like CJ, we can cut Stew and maybe he will re-sign for 2 mil or so.  Depending on when he is cut (pre or post June 1) our cap hit for Stew would be 5.5 mil or 4.0 mil.

There are also restructure scenarios that make sense if you believe Stew can play more than 1 more year.  These are better than the above, but many have argued he's too old to have around anymore.

Can I ask where you're pulling your info from? The last time I looked into it, I am pretty sure that he carries an 8.25 million dollar encumbrance for 2017, and that if we release him it will save us 3.5 million in space (meaning we are on the hook for the other 4.75, but not the whole 8 like we would be if he played this season.)

3.5 million in space this season would let us sign Latavius Murray or someone of his caliber if they got cut... A younger guy than Stew, at the very least.

Also, 3.5 million is a little more than would be required for a 2017 rookie #8 pick salary, I believe... I think the number for the #8 pick this year will be about $3.1 million? Not 100% sure, but I was using last year's numbers and bumping it up a little for inflation the last time I looked into it.

So, we could effectively sign a younger guy of similar caliber, or draft a guy at #8 to replace him, and still have a couple hundred thousand in the bank.

With the cap space as it is, I am leaning more and more towards just letting him play out his contract and drafting/signing a complimentary back/eventual replacement.

[grimesgoat]

11 minutes ago, Bronn said:

Can I ask where you're pulling your info from? The last time I looked into it, I am pretty sure that he carries an 8.25 million dollar encumbrance for 2017, and that if we release him it will save us 3.5 million in space (meaning we are on the hook for the other 4.75, but not the whole 8 like we would be if he played this season.)
 

Bronn - the numbers come from "over the cap".  His salary is 5.5.  His prorated bonus from prior years is 2.75.  Total cap hit is 8.25.  If he is cut, all of the remaining bonus hits the cap right away but we do not owe the salary.  Unless I'm misunderstanding the website, the rolled up bonus (i.e. dead money or cap hit) is 3.5 mil. so we save 4.75 mil. in 2017 cap.  Savings are larger if he is designated a post-June 1 cut. 

If he plays and we cut him next year, our 2017 cap hit is 8.25 and there will be a small dead money hit to the 2018 cap.

[Wundrbread33]

15 hours ago, Lasus83 said:

Tolbert is still a good run blocker. We just need him blocking and not carrying the ball. I'm okay with him catching some passes to.

Sent from my SM-G930P using CarolinaHuddle mobile app
 

Are you basing this on Madden ratings or real life?

[KB_fan]

On 1/12/2017 at 4:28 PM, Jeremy Igo said:

What say you? Extend 3 years to a cap friendly deal, let him retire when he wants?

Sounds very good to me.  

Stew still adds a lot to our offense.  I still assume we'll draft a RB given this draft class is so stacked at the position, but we could let CAP go, and I wouldn't at all be surprised to see Tolbert go, so there's be room on the roster for Stew & a Rook.

[Bronn]

2 hours ago, grimesgoat said:

Bronn - the numbers come from "over the cap".  His salary is 5.5.  His prorated bonus from prior years is 2.75.  Total cap hit is 8.25.  If he is cut, all of the remaining bonus hits the cap right away but we do not owe the salary.  Unless I'm misunderstanding the website, the rolled up bonus (i.e. dead money or cap hit) is 3.5 mil. so we save 4.75 mil. in 2017 cap.  Savings are larger if he is designated a post-June 1 cut. 

If he plays and we cut him next year, our 2017 cap hit is 8.25 and there will be a small dead money hit to the 2018 cap.

I think you're correct. Basically, if we cut him pre June 1st, I think we'll have a dead cap hit of 3.5 Million PLUS the 1.357 Mil bonus we'll owe him for 2018 (which I think we've already agreed to pay him, and he is a UFA in 2018)

Therefore, if we cut him before June 1st this offseason, the cap hit for 2017 is 3.5 Mill which means we'll take a total cap hit of 4.857 Million but free up  about 4.75 Million this season and not owe him anything for 2018.

If we cut him post June 1, the dead cap hit is reduced to 2 million, meaning that we'll take a cap hit of 3.357 Million this year, while still freeing up the 4.75 and not owing him anything for 2018

Not much difference, really...