It's worse than I thought

[E CaT PanTHer 2]

guys that were available for DG to draft.

Leveon Bell

Deandre Hopkins

Allan Robinson 

Jeremy Hill

 

[Ricky Spanish]

6 minutes ago, Growl said:

I didn't read all of this because I didn't want to. For starters, let's stop with the "playoffs!!" argument because it isn't that impressive in hindsight. We obviously weren't a "playoff team" in 2014 and after detonating the 2015 roster and getting what we got last year, were currently 2-2 (with much of that success coming from Hurney players, but I digress)

 

Secondly you've missed the point entirely.

It doesn't matter if the <insert year> OT class was "bad."

 

What matters is that there's a perception here, and apparently from Dave himself that its always bad. Every year... Every year... Take a moment to see how outlandish that sounds when you see teams around the league with similar needs filling up those positions with quality, or, if nothing else promising, players at some point.

 

It's an absurd notion. The class may lack in 6'7" 310 lb SEC generational players, but that doesn't make it bad as time has gone on to prove.

I mean if you're going to be a lazy dick about it, I'll give you a TL:DR of my previous post:

I agreed with you that other things could have been done, but hindsight is 20/20 and there's arguments against both sides on potential roster moves that could have happened, but you and all those that complain never do.

Disregarding 2014, to me is unfair only because they actually won a playoff game and then played the Seahawks hard on the road. They showed that they deserved to be in the playoffs that year regardless of record. It was also the catalyst for the 2015 season, so not giving the 2014 season any credit is shortsighted (in my opinion). Plenty of young talent on that roster that just didn't get it together (or even a chance to play) until the last part of the year. 

As far as FA OT's go - you're likely not going to get a good one because the teams that drafted the good ones tend to pony up and keep them. 

As far as drafting OTs goes - We haven't invested in the position like some would like, but it seems that scouting OTs has become a bit of a crapshoot since college offenses have embraced the spread. Look at the 1st round OTs taken since Gettleman's first year as GM. The vast majority are below average:

• Fisher-Average
• Jockel- Bust
• Fluker - Moved to Guard
• Pugh - Moved to Guard
• Robinson - Bust
• Matthews - Average at best
• Lewan - Actually good, but a bit of a dipshit
• James - Average
• Scherff- Looks good so far
• Flowers - Looks like Ass so far
• Peat - Looks like Ass so far
• Ogbuehi - Looks like Ass so far
• Humphries - Looks like Ass so far

Of the above listed, we only had a shot at Pugh. We haven't missed out on anything there.

The best tackles across the league that have been drafted have been 2nd round+ guys. When you stop and think about it, it's crazy how inept each NFL team has been at scouting this position. Having said that, I know for a fact we were high on Terron Armstead coming out of college but the Saints picked before us and scooped him up because we didn't have a 3rd round pick that year because in 2012 Hurney traded our 2012 6th and our 2013 3rd for a 2012 4th that we used on Frank Alexander...

Having said all of that, there really haven't been that many great OT prospects due to the implementation of the spread offense in college. Other teams are really relying on Vets at the OT position across the board. Here is a link to all PFF grades for O-lines this season. Notice the vast majority of the good tackles are 4+ season vets. Correct me if I'm wrong but the only two I think we truly missed out on are Koundjio (who we would have had to give up Benjamin in order to draft, leaving a larger void at WR than there already is) who is a decent average Tackle, and Moses, who we could have had insstead of Ealy (and I'd rather that be the case because Ealy has been a disappointment). And between us, the Bills (who have Kouandjio) and the Redskins (who have Moses) what position would you rather be in?

TL:DR for you in bold because god forbid you actually read something

You're too lazy to actually go out, research, and provide actual evidence to your argument that there have been better options at tackle available since Gettleman has been our GM when the evidence point to the contrary that there have only been a handful that would have been decent additions to the team at this point in time so you still would bitch about him not doing enough or not getting the "right" guys. 

 

[Khyber53]

And yet, somehow we made it to the Superb Owl last year. I mean, these guys suck at building a team, don't they?

Playoffs for three seasons running as NFC South champs before this season. Gettleman's just a fake, right?

Got us out of salary cap hell and now we may have in the neighborhood of $70 million in cap space for 2017. These guys don't know crap about managing a team do they?

Geez, I'm thinking maybe it's the fanbase that doesn't know shite.

Really, show some sense of perspective.

[cardiaccat52]

8 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Also to the posters who cry about "all this investment on defense, where is Cam's help" crap.....

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/positional/

 

Real numbers for offensive and defensive spending last season.

 

And guess what......next season.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/positional/2017/full-cap/

 

I would venture to say that 85% of all NFL teams have their salary cap skewed towards the offense, just given how inflated QB contracts are. I also think Carolina's offensive spending is further skewed given the high cap dollars on TE, C, and RB...Thanks to Hurney - Olsen, Kalil, and Stewart make up $28M of the cap...I doubt there are many other teams that spend that much, collectively, on those three positions. 

[Swaggasaurus]

10 minutes ago, E CaT PanTHer 2 said:

guys that were available for DG to draft.

Leveon Bell

Deandre Hopkins

Allan Robinson 

Jeremy Hill

 

Bell and Hopkins were in the same draft as Star. We would've been dumb as fug to pass on Star. We took KB over Robinson, same as the rest of the world would have. Stay woke.

[Ricky Spanish]

1 minute ago, cardiaccat52 said:

 

I would venture to say that 85% of all NFL teams have their salary cap skewed towards the offense, just given how inflated QB contracts are. I also think Carolina's offensive spending is further skewed given the high cap dollars on TE, C, and RB...Thanks to Hurney - Olsen, Kalil, and Stewart make up $28M of the cap...I doubt there are many other teams that spend that much, collectively, on those three positions. 

Devil's advocate here: Hurney brought them in, but Gettleman extended Kalil and Olsen, meaning their cap hit is a direct reflection of him, not Hurney anymore. 

[Jangler]

6 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

And yet, somehow we made it to the Superb Owl last year. I mean, these guys suck at building a team, don't they?

Playoffs for three seasons running as NFC South champs before this season. Gettleman's just a fake, right?

Got us out of salary cap hell and now we may have in the neighborhood of $70 million in cap space for 2017. These guys don't know crap about managing a team do they?

Geez, I'm thinking maybe it's the fanbase that doesn't know shite.

Really, show some sense of perspective.

Hurney draft picks is the way out..  meh

Have a stupid song.

 

[thefuzz]

5 minutes ago, cardiaccat52 said:

 

I would venture to say that 85% of all NFL teams have their salary cap skewed towards the offense, just given how inflated QB contracts are. I also think Carolina's offensive spending is further skewed given the high cap dollars on TE, C, and RB...Thanks to Hurney - Olsen, Kalil, and Stewart make up $28M of the cap...I doubt there are many other teams that spend that much, collectively, on those three positions. 

Team that beat us in the SB didn't.

GB, HOU, KC, MIA, NYG, OAK, SEA, didn't.

 

From what quick research I just did, it looks like over 50% of the teams that made the playoffs did so by spending more in D this season than O.

I'm not arguing about the money allocation, but spending big bucks on Cam, Kalil, and Olsen aren't "wasted" dollars.

 

[uncfan888]

All we need is for hurney's #1 fan to come in here and type ten pages to appease his minions. Man this place went downhill fast

[CRA]

50 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I also count Hurney's extensions of our FA's to be spending in free agency.

 

Edit: To add, I'm not talking about the last time we did, just that for the first time in 5 years I feel comfortable spending big in free agency.  Hurney's books were so bad that I was often hesitant to spend any money until it was cleaned up.  To that....DG has been great...but there have been some foul ups.

true, if you include resigning our own...then Hurney definitely spent money. Gettlemen has spent big bucks on our own too.

But we haven't gone out in FA spent big money on  acquire guys we didn't draft in a LONG time.

[pstall]

I have a sense some here flip out if the drive thru takes longer than 2 mins or you always seem to be that guy sending his plate back or wanting free food.

Download some patience will ya? Lol

[Kakarot]

6 minutes ago, uncfan888 said:

All we need is for hurney's #1 fan to come in here and type ten pages to appease his minions. Man this place went downhill fast

It went downhill because folks are criticizing Gettleman? This thread isn't even bad, as there has been great discussion in here. 

Its funny you say this in this thread where there's slight criticism of Gettleman, but there's a thread that was created earlier that criticizes Shula, and there's no complaints from you or anyone who complains about the quality of the board. I guess if you criticize the right people, it's ok. Also worth noting that those who claim to be rational, usually aren't and are just like the ones they rally against. Your just on one extreme while others are on another extreme.

[CRA]

30 minutes ago, Swaggasaurus said:

Bell and Hopkins were in the same draft as Star. We would've been dumb as fug to pass on Star. We took KB over Robinson, same as the rest of the world would have. Stay woke.

I love Star.  That he was underrated last year when the KK love was at a all time high.  But, if you draft KK and were going to follow it up w/ Butler you could of not drafted Star.  Throw away the Star pick and there still has been a GREAT investment at DT in the draft and with quality FAs in recent years.  

I will always be an advocate of being well rounded over super stacked at a position.  We invested so well....it was hard to argue Butler deserved to see the field.  Which IMO isn't a good things in terms of properly building your roster.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, thefuzz said:

I also count Hurney's extensions of our FA's to be spending in free agency.

Extensions of your own free agents are a legitimate part of free agency.