It's worse than I thought

[Jangler]

Mock drafts and Madden might have screwed up football more than the officials.

[Ricky Spanish]

To be fair, it's not like there have been a ton of "open" roster spots to improve on. The offense has never been the problem with Cam at the helm (until this past season). 

Props where it's due, Hurney provided a pro bowl center, a Pro Bowl Tackle in Gross, Pro Bowl RBs with Stewart, williams, and Tolbert, a HOFer Smitty, and traded for an all pro TE with Olsen.

Since Gettleman has arrived we have seen the retirement of Gross and the release of Williams and Smitty.

To replace Smitty they drafted Benjamin. To replace Gross we signed Oher as a FA. Williams was replaced by Stewart with nothing lost in production. 

Other FA acquisitions that have addressed the needs on offense include signing Ginn who is a surprisingly solid #2 WR, Mike Remmers who is a decent tackle/depth guy (although some will argue more could have been done, it's not like there were a ton of better options out there at the time), signed Andrew Norwell as a UDFA who is a great guard on the cusp of a pro bowl and it feels a little disingenuous not to even mention him in Voth's post.

So while we haven't built our offense through the draft, it's not like things have been ignored. Some things could be improved on, but in context it's not nearly as bad as these tweets imply. 

The only real fault I can find is not being able to replace a perennial Pro bowl LT (which is difficult) and failing to find a replacement for a future hall of Famer (which is also difficult). Neither are due to lack of effort though. 

[Cary Kollins]

I smoked a lot of weed in high school, so correct me if I'm wrong...but I seem to remember the Panthers, under Dave Gettleman, go 15-1 and come within a few plays from winning a Super Bowl.

You guys continue your "the sky is falling" freak out all offseason if you'd like. I'll stay here in reality.

[Growl]

Just now, Jangler said:

Mock drafts and Madden might have screwed up football more than the officials.

yeah I'd say the only thing worse are people who still parrot Fox clichés from 2007 like "you build through the draft" while the gargantuan wall of evidence that the league is ultra competitive and you need to use every avenue possible to be triumphant continues to mount up

[cardiaccat52]

I think those tweets are a little misleading. Yes, for the draft there has been little help, but the organization as a whole has made moves to try and improve the offense and help Newton. Via trades, FA signings, or high draft picks that just having worked out. 

2011 - Trade for Greg Olsen

2012 - 2nd Rd on a guard (Amini) 4th Rd on a WR (J. Adams) - neither worked out

2013 - FA signed Ginn (good signing), B. Campbell (Tackle - didn't work out), 4th round guard (Kigbula - didnt work out)

2014 - FA signings (Cotchery, Avant, Underwood) - only 1 worked out...Drafted KB (1st), Turner (3rd), Norwell (undrafted)..

You can go on, but there are clearly moves that were made to address and help the offense/Newton...its just unfortunate the draft picks didn't work out.  

 

[Confined9991]

Leonard Fournette, come on down!

[Cookie Lyon]

12 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

 

Other FA acquisitions that have addressed the needs on offense include signing Ginn who is a surprisingly solid #2 WR, Mike Remmers who is a decent tackle/depth guy (although some will argue more could have been done, it's not like there were a ton of better options out there at the time), signed Andrew Norwell as a UDFA who is a great guard on the cusp of a pro bowl and it feels a little disingenuous not to even mention him in Voth's post.

 

How am I being disingenuous? I posted what Bill Voth tweeted.

[Ricky Spanish]

8 minutes ago, Growl said:

This Alamo defense of Gettleman of "who could we have had?" Becomes more preposterous every year.

 

He has been here a long time now. No, I don't remember who was available for free agency four years ago, but I do know teams used it to their advantage.

 

Hey guess what

 

Those "its just a weak class this year" OTs have gone all over the league in recent years and strengthened OLs. In fact as I remember it, two rookies destroyed us in Primetime on a Sunday Night not so long ago.

 

Those "there just aren't any good DBs" all just went to New York and gave them a ride to the postseason.

 

It goes on and on, at every position. Your GM just has to be good enough or willing enough to find them.

 

 

Short memory man, we made the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years, it's not like the lack of signing hurt us until this offseason. 

You might not remember the OT FA class from a few years ago, but I do. It was mostly crap. The bucs signed that one dude from cincy to a massive deal and he went on to have a worse year than Byron Bell. Everyone bitched we didn't get him and then they released him the next offseason. Money saved was used to re-sign a guy like Olsen. They missed the playoffs making that move, we made it 3 years in a row.

I'd rather have Olsen then a poo overpaid RT.

Meanwhile we brought in Oher, who when not concussed has looked like a long term solution at LT, and did it at a bargain price. There's an ebb and flow to FA. For everyone we sign, we lose someone else. The tricky part is making sure you aren't at -talent when you let a guy go and replace him.

I'm willing to admit that letting Josh go with no vet presence to replace him was a mistake by Gettleman. That hurt us last year. Does it hurt us long term though? That's to be seen. After dealing with Hurney's ridiculous contracts, I'm alright with dealing with some short term pain if it means the team won't be in a dire situation for years to come. All the FA's he's signed that haven't worked out have been on bargain contracts that don't hurt us long term. The ones that have worked out have been extended at fair market value, not ridiculous Near 30 year old RB contract extensions like Hurney. 

The other thing working against Gettleman the past few offseasons was lack of $$$ to spend. He had some last year, which is why I still call the whole Norman thing a boner on his part, but the years prior he didn't and we made the playoffs 3 years in a row.

This offseason, we are like the Giants last offseason. We have money and plenty of needs to address. If Gettleman sits on his ass this offseason, I'll be pissed like you, but I can't be pissed when I take everything into context the previous 3 years. 

[Ricky Spanish]

Just now, Cookie Lyon said:

How am I being disingenuous? I posted what Bill Voth tweeted.

I meant Voth, not you.

[Cookie Lyon]

24 minutes ago, Growl said:

This Alamo defense of Gettleman of "who could we have had?" Becomes more preposterous every year.

 

He has been here a long time now. No, I don't remember who was available for free agency four years ago, but I do know teams used it to their advantage.

 

Hey guess what

 

Those "its just a weak class this year" OTs have gone all over the league in recent years and strengthened OLs. In fact as I remember it, two rookies destroyed us in Primetime on a Sunday Night not so long ago.

 

Those "there just aren't any good DBs" all just went to New York and gave them a ride to the postseason.

 

It goes on and on, at every position. Your GM just has to be good enough or willing enough to find them.

 

 

THIS

[Cookie Lyon]

2 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

I meant Voth, not you.

Oh ok I gotcha. My bad.

[thefuzz]

2 minutes ago, Cookie Lyon said:

THIS

IS WEAK.

 

And everyone knows it that actually follows football.

[Growl]

6 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

Short memory man, we made the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years, it's not like the lack of signing hurt us until this offseason. 

You might not remember the OT FA class from a few years ago, but I do. It was mostly crap. The bucs signed that one dude from cincy to a massive deal and he went on to have a worse year than Byron Bell. Everyone bitched we didn't get him and then they released him the next offseason. Money saved was used to re-sign a guy like Olsen. They missed the playoffs making that move, we made it 3 years in a row.

I'd rather have Olsen then a poo overpaid RT.

Meanwhile we brought in Oher, who when not concussed has looked like a long term solution at LT, and did it at a bargain price. There's an ebb and flow to FA. For everyone we sign, we lose someone else. The tricky part is making sure you aren't at -talent when you let a guy go and replace him.

I'm willing to admit that letting Josh go with no vet presence to replace him was a mistake by Gettleman. That hurt us last year. Does it hurt us long term though? That's to be seen. After dealing with Hurney's ridiculous contracts, I'm alright with dealing with some short term pain if it means the team won't be in a dire situation for years to come. All the FA's he's signed that haven't worked out have been on bargain contracts that don't hurt us long term. The ones that have worked out have been extended at fair market value, not ridiculous Near 30 year old RB contract extensions like Hurney. 

The other thing working against Gettleman the past few offseasons was lack of $$$ to spend. He had some last year, which is why I still call the whole Norman thing a boner on his part, but the years prior he didn't and we made the playoffs 3 years in a row.

This offseason, we are like the Giants last offseason. We have money and plenty of needs to address. If Gettleman sits on his ass this offseason, I'll be pissed like you, but I can't be pissed when I take everything into context the previous 3 years. 

I didn't read all of this because I didn't want to. For starters, let's stop with the "playoffs!!" argument because it isn't that impressive in hindsight. We obviously weren't a "playoff team" in 2014 and after detonating the 2015 roster and getting what we got last year, were currently 2-2 (with much of that success coming from Hurney players, but I digress)

 

Secondly you've missed the point entirely.

It doesn't matter if the <insert year> OT class was "bad."

 

What matters is that there's a perception here, and apparently from Dave himself that its always bad. Every year... Every year... Take a moment to see how outlandish that sounds when you see teams around the league with similar needs filling up those positions with quality, or, if nothing else promising, players at some point.

 

It's an absurd notion. The class may lack in 6'7" 310 lb SEC generational players, but that doesn't make it bad as time has gone on to prove.

[top dawg]

30 minutes ago, Growl said:

This Alamo defense of Gettleman of "who could we have had?" Becomes more preposterous every year.

 

He has been here a long time now. No, I don't remember who was available for free agency four years ago, but I do know teams used it to their advantage.

 

Hey guess what

 

Those "its just a weak class this year" OTs have gone all over the league in recent years and strengthened OLs. In fact as I remember it, two rookies destroyed us in Primetime on a Sunday Night not so long ago.

 

Those "there just aren't any good DBs" all just went to New York and gave them a ride to the postseason.

 

It goes on and on, at every position. Your GM just has to be good enough or willing enough to find them.

 

 

Damn Skippy! I was going to say something similar. This apologist bullshit is mildly annoying sometimes. 

Basically, there needs to be more of a concerted and focused effort to get some legit starters on offense, whether it be in the draft, but, better yet, free agency. As for the silled milk, I don't have the patience or desire to cry over everyone we missed, but I will mention Jared Veldheer as I have many times before, and we've skipped over many legit receivers in the draft (who didn't evolve from a TE).