Spotrac predicts KK contract

[mikeholiday]

1 minute ago, Bogart said:

That had nothing to do with it.  He pulled it because whatever Josh and his camp were doing told him that it wasn't worth waiting on him to come around.  

You keep using the term standard behavior but nothing that went down was standard.  He was given the chance to play under the tag for one year and that was it.  He wanted much more and was told that ain't happening here.  After that poo went to hell and a Dave picked his money and walked away.  End of story.  He decided to play the whole thing out in the media and you know this organization will not stand for that.  Dave did the right thing.  Nothing about that screams ego on his part.  It does show desperation to save face on Josh's though.

Yes, Dave made a brilliant move dismantling a Super Bowl contender. But hey look at all that sexy cap space. Heck, who needs a Super Bowl when you can get a top ten pick. I hope he does such a brilliant job this offseason too. Lucky for him, he has another Pro-bowler to run off the team. 

[CRA]

7 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Again, it isn't standard. About half the guys signed their tags this year in days after they got the tag and half did not.

Ok.  So...if 50% of a population all act in a similar manner...that wouldn't be considered a standard practice? by your own admission how is that not a routine event? 

And what if I can prove it is more than 50%....what then

[CPantherKing]

And the Panthers get weaker. Downward spiral. We saw that the core from 2011/2012 is getting too thin to keep this mess moving forward.

Death by one thousand Gettleman cuts.

[Jon Snow]

10 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Of course you want confidence. But sometimes diplomacy is needed. Even in the face of hostility. No you don't have to bow down, or "tuck tail", but how these things go down regardless of who shares more or less blame, the league sees it, and agents of other players down the road will exploit it if possible.

Dave isn't going to talk about it, because it serves no purpose for our franchise to rehash the whole ordeal, that's the smart move. But I believe he realizes it was a learning process overall moving forward. At least I hope.

That's a two way street my friend.  I would say that Josh's agent fuged it up for him and not Dave.

[CRA]

13 minutes ago, Bogart said:

That had nothing to do with it.  He pulled it because whatever Josh and his camp were doing told him that it wasn't worth waiting on him to come around.  

You keep using the term standard behavior but nothing that went down was standard.  He was given the chance to play under the tag for one year and that was it.  He wanted much more and was told that ain't happening here.  After that poo went to hell and a Dave picked his money and walked away.  End of story.  He decided to play the whole thing out in the media and you know this organization will not stand for that.  Dave did the right thing.  Nothing about that screams ego on his part.  It does show desperation to save face on Josh's though.

It is standard for guys who want to play for a team and get a deal done....to not sign the tag immediately. 

What Dave did pulling the tag is the only unique action in the discussion and there has been literally nothing given to support it outside of...."well, Dave said it was the right thing to do"

and again, I was the resident Norman "hater".  Even I can't defend not playing him with the tag in 2016.  It just makes no logical sense. 

[Jon Snow]

Just now, CRA said:

It is standard for guys who want to play for a team and get a deal done....to not sign the tag immediately. 

What Dave did pulling the tag is the only unique action in the discussion and there has been literally nothing given to support it outside of...."well, Dave said it was the right thing to do"

and again, I was the resident Norman "hater".  Even I can't defend not playing him on the tag.  It just makes no logical sense. 

The difference in our stance is that you blame Dave and I blame Josh for him not being here.    Standard practice went out the window when Josh's agent insulted the man he was negotiating with.  What other reason would Dave have for doing it?  The proof is when Josh flipped his poo and fired his agent.

[CRA]

 

1 minute ago, Bogart said:

The difference in our stance is that you blame Dave and I blame Josh for him not being here.    Standard practice went out the window when Josh's agent insulted the man he was negotiating with.  What other reason would Dave have for doing it?  The proof is when Josh flipped his poo and fired his agent.

Deals don't get done all the time in the NFL.  Two sides not agreeing is again standard.

fact still remains Gettlemen is the one who legitimately did something unique. 

Josh flipped his poo because he was in the dark (like most players during chunks of those talks) and NO ONE could of predicted the unprecedented move of Gettlemen.  To this day, Norman is heartbroken.  That is why he fired his agent. 

Again, no one ever gives a legit reason why Norman's services were not used in 2016 with the tag. Not signing a tag immediately isn't one nor is not likely giving him a big deal (which I didn't endorse)

[Guest]

And the Panthers get weaker. Downward spiral. We saw that the core from 2011/2012 is getting too thin to keep this mess moving forward.

Death by one thousand Gettleman cuts.

Downward spiral since 2011/2012?

I would love to see your posts from 2013 when we were 12-4... or 2015 when we were 15-1... how about last year in the playoffs when we trounced Arizona and Seattle?

Seriously, people... frontrunning is unbecoming



Sent from my SM-G930P using CarolinaHuddle mobile app

[Jon Snow]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

 

Deals don't get done all the time in the NFL.  Two sides not agreeing is again standard.

fact still remains Gettlemen is the one who legitimately did something unique. 

Josh flipped his poo because he was in the dark (like most players during chunks of those talks) and NO ONE could of predicted the unprecedented move of Gettlemen.  To this day, Norman is heartbroken.  That is why he fired his agent. 

Again, no one ever gives a legit reason why Norman's services were not used in 2016 with the tag. Not signing a tag immediately isn't one nor is not likely giving him a big deal (which I didn't endorse)

The difference is that just because it's unique doesn't automatically make it wrong.  That seems to be the common theme I hear.

If Josh was in the dark it's his own fault because as he so publicly stated his top priority was the money.  He let an idiot do the talking for him in negotiations while he toured around bragging about himself to the media.  If he's heartbroken it's his own fault.

Josh is the reason his services were not used in 2016 because his antics was not worth the cost.  It's that simple.

[MHS831]

Tag and let go and draft a DT with the third rounder you get.  Here is why--we compare his deal to other player's deals, but just because a GM got scared or desperate, that does not mean we have to be the same...Look at their teams--Buffalo and Philly.  Perhaps not the best uses of cap money.

Instead, pay Star what he is worth, develop Butler, and find a solid veteran who won't break the bank.  KK is good--don't get me wrong, but what I just suggested cost about $8m per season less.  What if we used the $8m on a SS or towards Addison's deal? 

Sure, I want KK to stay, but without Star, he is not the same.

[CPantherKing]

59 minutes ago, lasus83 said:

Downward spiral since 2011/2012?

I would love to see your posts from 2013 when we were 12-4... or 2015 when we were 15-1... how about last year in the playoffs when we trounced Arizona and Seattle?

Seriously, people... frontrunning is unbecoming



Sent from my SM-G930P using CarolinaHuddle mobile app
 

Not a downward spiral in since 2011/2012. They are in a downward spiral as of the 2016 off season. The end of 2012 and 2013 was the emergence of a strong core of players from the 2011/2012 rebuild.

The front office took some fierce swipes at a promising future in 2014, but enough of the core remained to battle through the pain from the front office and begin to peak in 2015. I do believe the Panthers could have been stronger in 2014 and 2015 then they were.

That core of developing players from 2011/2012 were cut too thin come 2016 with the losses of Steve Smith, Jordan Gross, Greg Hardy, DeAngelo Williams, Josh Norman, Jeremy Shockey/Gary Barnidge, injury to CJ, Captain Munnerlyn, Dwan Edwards, and Jon Beason.

KB, Oher, Ealy, CAP, Bradberry, Dickson, a slower CJ due to the injury, Worley, Butler, and Shaq have yet to come close to the impact their predecessors brought in a game. The voids at those positions are still empty and waiting to be filled.

In 2016, the Panthers line of regression finally passed over their playmaking/production level. They need an immediate infusion of play makers or this downward trend will only continue.

[therealmjl]

13 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

Not a downward spiral in since 2011/2012. They are in a downward spiral as of the 2016 off season. The end of 2012 and 2013 was the emergence of a strong core of players from the 2011/2012 rebuild.

The front office took some fierce swipes at a promising future in 2014, but enough of the core remained to battle through the pain from the front office and begin to peak in 2015. I do believe the Panthers could have been stronger in 2014 and 2015 then they were.

That core of developing players from 2011/2012 were cut too thin come 2016 with the losses of Steve Smith, Jordan Gross, Greg Hardy, DeAngelo Williams, Josh Norman, Jeremy Shockey/Gary Barnidge, injury to CJ, Captain Munnerlyn, Dwan Edwards, and Jon Beason.

KB, Oher, Ealy, CAP, Bradberry, Dickson, a slower CJ due to the injury, Worley, Butler, and Shaq have yet to come close to the impact their predecessors brought in a game. The voids at those positions are still empty and waiting to be filled.

In 2016, the Panthers line of regression finally passed over their playmaking/production level. They need an immediate infusion of play makers or this downward trend will only continue.

LOL at Gary Barnidge

[CPantherKing]

1 minute ago, mjligon said:

LOL at Gary Barnidge

Laugh all you want. Shockey/Barnidge > Swole Bones/Ed Dickson. That is the point. The level of talent has not been replaced. It just declined.

[therealmjl]

4 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

Laugh all you want. Shockey/Barnidge > Swole Bones/Ed Dickson. That is the point. The level of talent has not been replaced. It just declined.

Gary Barnidge did absolutely nothing during his time in Carolina. Referencing him as someone we failed to replace is a joke. There was nothing to replace.