"Cam isn't good at the short, quick throws"

[csx]

On 1/2/2017 at 7:50 PM, Jeremy Igo said:

One argument I have seen against changing up the offense a bit is that Cam isn't particularly good at short quick throws. 

Fug that. 

It might have something to do with Cam spending the entire OTA and training camp in a system that calls for him holding onto the ball for 4 seconds and throwing deep ball after deep ball. 

I have said since Cam was drafted every year in camp I am amazed about how long it takes for the plays to develop and Cam to throw the ball. It was not like that under the Fox regime. 

A new offensive coordinator is needed. One that can take an intelligent, physical freak like Cam Newton to the next level. Cam has hit his ceiling under the current regime, but personally he still has much more room to grow. 

There is no doubt in my mind that with a proper mentor, Newton could become that Aaron Rodgers type player. Deadly in the long game, deadly in the short game, and a threat to run. 

 

/rant

Whether you are exaggerating or not people believe and repeat what you say. The fact is 4 seconds is an eternity in terms of a qb holding the ball and only represents the far extreme of broken plays with a scramble in the backfield. Cam and this offense dont do that as the norm. There are stats available to show this. To use this for an argument is absurd.

[stankowalski]

On 1/2/2017 at 7:50 AM, Jeremy Igo said:

One argument I have seen against changing up the offense a bit is that Cam isn't particularly good at short quick throws. 

Fug that. 

It might have something to do with Cam spending the entire OTA and training camp in a system that calls for him holding onto the ball for 4 seconds and throwing deep ball after deep ball. 

I have said since Cam was drafted every year in camp I am amazed about how long it takes for the plays to develop and Cam to throw the ball. It was not like that under the Fox regime. 

A new offensive coordinator is needed. One that can take an intelligent, physical freak like Cam Newton to the next level. Cam has hit his ceiling under the current regime, but personally he still has much more room to grow. 

There is no doubt in my mind that with a proper mentor, Newton could become that Aaron Rodgers type player. Deadly in the long game, deadly in the short game, and a threat to run. 

 

/rant

Have you not seen his short passes?  You're there all game long so you should.  One of Cam's strengths is his arm strength, which is why we are a running team that throws the deep ball.  If we switched to a WCO or something similar it would be disastrous.

[TheRed]

It's difficult to take anyone serious talking about mechanics 7 years in when they leave out the part that throughout those 7 years we've had guys like Byron Bell, Nate Chandler, and Mike Remmers in key starting roles protecting our franchise quarterback.

And even with that factored in, the guy has still led us into the division crown/ playoffs 3 years in a row, along with a Super Bowl appearance, and an MVP award.

I'm finally getting a chance to look at his numbers for the 2016 season, I thought it was going to be a lot worse with all the pathetic hand wringing around here from the usual losers. Completion percentage doesn't tell the whole story. He had the second most passing attempts of his career, still maintained the 7 yard per pass average he's been around throughout his career, and finished with 24 touchdowns to 14 interceptions. The interesting thing is he only threw 4 more interceptions this year than last year in the regular season, and 3 of those came in the final game against the Bucs where we were desperate to score. All this in his "worst season as a pro" where it seemed like anything that could go wrong, would go wrong.

Even with all that, we could still be looking at a winning record, and playoffs right now if our kicker hadn't morphed into Ray Finkle this season.

But... CAM NEWTONNNN!!!!

[panthers55]

6 hours ago, TheRed said:

It's difficult to take anyone serious talking about mechanics 7 years in when they leave out the part that throughout those 7 years we've had guys like Byron Bell, Nate Chandler, and Mike Remmers in key starting roles protecting our franchise quarterback.

And even with that factored in, the guy has still led us into the division crown/ playoffs 3 years in a row, along with a Super Bowl appearance, and an MVP award.

I'm finally getting a chance to look at his numbers for the 2016 season, I thought it was going to be a lot worse with all the pathetic hand wringing around here from the usual losers. Completion percentage doesn't tell the whole story. He had the second most passing attempts of his career, still maintained the 7 yard per pass average he's been around throughout his career, and finished with 24 touchdowns to 14 interceptions. The interesting thing is he only threw 4 more interceptions this year than last year in the regular season, and 3 of those came in the final game against the Bucs where we were desperate to score. All this in his "worst season as a pro" where it seemed like anything that could go wrong, would go wrong.

Even with all that, we could still be looking at a winning record, and playoffs right now if our kicker hadn't morphed into Ray Finkle this season.

But... CAM NEWTONNNN!!!!

Funny thing is I agree with you that considering everything, we were a few field goals away from at least 9-7 or better. That is the same logic I use in not only defending Newton but also Shula. Folks act as if the offense was horrible and yet we still finished in the top half of the league in points scored all while remaining in the bottom five in points allowed on defense. We left a lot of points on the field which likely won't happen next year if we simply get everyone back who got injured.

[Krovvy]

I haven't fully read this thread, so I don't know if this was posted yet, but I think it may be pertinent to the discussion.

Quote

Benjamin checked in with the lowest average separation on his targets (1.8 yards) and Funchess, who barely got on the field anyway, came in with the fourth lowest (2.0) among receivers who saw 20 or more targets. 

The twin towers isn't looking too hot.

[TheRed]

10 minutes ago, Krovvy said:

I haven't fully read this thread, so I don't know if this was posted yet, but I think it may be pertinent to the discussion.

The twin towers isn't looking too hot.

Quote

 

No starting quarterback threw into tight windows more than Cam Newton in 2016, as 24.9 percent of his pass attempts went to a receiver who had less than one yard of separation. 

Looks like someone out there actually watches the games. Hell he's more knowledgeable than some of our own fans shitposting in this very thread.

But ermegherd his completion percentage!

[panthers55]

On 1/2/2017 at 8:31 AM, GoobyPls said:

Little problem, KB and Funchess are not built for those quick passes. They drop more short passes than they do deep ones. As structured now our WR core is way to slow to have any success in that type of offense. 

You know Funchess ran a 

4.4  40 at his pro day. Ginn only runs a 4.3 40. You think that is slow?

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, TheRed said:

Looks like someone out there actually watches the games. Hell he's more knowledgeable than some of our own fans shitposting in this very thread.

But ermegherd his completion percentage!

So that means on 75% of his passes he had more than a yard of separation? Was this judged during the route at any time or when the ball arrived.? Because many times by the time the ball arrived the defender has adjusted. What about passes thrown behind the receiver or short where the receiver had to slow down to wait for the ball.

Secondly this article was about the aggressiveness of the quarterback who threw into a tight window whether they were open or not. This could be an indictment of the receivers or of Cam. Were any guys open or did he throw it to Funchess or KB or even Olsen regardless of coverage. Not trying to be critical but I saw many times he threw late and tried to force it into a receiver when there was a wide open running back in the flat or another receiver was wide open and he didn't even look that way because he locked on receivers and heard footsteps. There are many reasons for this besides scheme or receivers. It didn't seem to happen last year and I don't think everyone suddenly got slow.....

[Jon Snow]

It's not easy to complete the passes when the defender knows every shity route this offense has and his line can't hold blocks for more than 3 seconds.   Hell I can predict the play 75% of the time and I'm just a fan. 

[panthers55]

18 minutes ago, Bogart said:

It's not easy to complete the passes when the defender knows every shity route this offense has and his line can't hold blocks for more than 3 seconds.   Hell I can predict the play 75% of the time and I'm just a fan. 

First of all our passing offense is often limited by what throws Cam does well versus those he struggles with such as touch passes and fades. It is easier to play in front of a receiver when you know the QB throws straight lasers and can't float it over your head as a guy like Wilson can.  Secondly no line can consistently block defenders for more than 3 seconds. Most quarterbacks get the ball out between 2.5 and 3 seconds. I don't know about this year but usually Cam has taken one of the longest times to get the ball out.

[Jon Snow]

2 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

First of all our passing offense is often limited by what throws Cam does well versus those he struggles with such as touch passes and fades. It is easier to play in front of a receiver when you know the QB throws straight lasers and can't float it over your head as a guy like Wilson can.  Secondly no line can consistently block our defenders for more than 3 seconds. Most quarterbacks get the ball out between 2.5 and 3 seconds. I don't know about this year but usually he has taken one of the longest times to get the ball out.

I'm not sure what you're getting defensive about I was agreeing with you.

[panthers55]

Just now, Bogart said:

I'm not sure what you're getting defensive about I was agreeing with you.

It wasn't meant to be defensive it was just clarifying your statements.

[Jon Snow]

1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

It wasn't meant to be defensive it was just clarifying your statements.

Got it.  I'm posting while inebriated so my response time is a little slow.

[TheRed]

57 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

So that means on 75% of his passes he had more than a yard of separation? Was this judged during the route at any time or when the ball arrived.? Because many times by the time the ball arrived the defender has adjusted. What about passes thrown behind the receiver or short where the receiver had to slow down to wait for the ball.

Secondly this article was about the aggressiveness of the quarterback who threw into a tight window whether they were open or not. This could be an indictment of the receivers or of Cam. Were any guys open or did he throw it to Funchess or KB or even Olsen regardless of coverage. Not trying to be critical but I saw many times he threw late and tried to force it into a receiver when there was a wide open running back in the flat or another receiver was wide open and he didn't even look that way because he locked on receivers and heard footsteps. There are many reasons for this besides scheme or receivers. It didn't seem to happen last year and I don't think everyone suddenly got slow.....

It's an indictment on the offense we run chief.

I don't think KB or Funchess are "slow", but everyone outside of Olsen, and Ginn without a doubt had trouble getting separation consistently.

It isn't something to absolve or soley blame anyone, it's another piece to the puzzle of misery that was the 2016 season.

As far as dumping it off to Stewart, I think every now and again that would help, but overall our offense was so predictable that not even Stewart could get much going at times. Besides, again, we don't run the dink and dunk dump off offense.

We saw flashes of our 2015 offense when we ran the uptempo, and we ran that a lot in 2015 to fantastic success, but for some reason it just didn't happen much in 2016. I'm sure the OL played a role in that, but a good OC should be able to scheme around those deficiencies to a degree.

All that said, regardless of Shula, we didn't do our offense many favors in the offseason. We took it for granted while the rest of the division, and the league for that matter improved their rosters overall.

The whole point of that post was to add clarity to the shitty posts that just scream about completion percentage while ignoring any other mitigating factors.