Offense struggling, let's draft more defense

[Ivan The Awesome]

55 minutes ago, Promethean Forerunner said:

No, we don't. If this were New Orleans or Atlanta, both would crush us. Funchess wasn't used to his strengths and Cam didn't look his way enough. He'll be fine longterm. Benjamin is our bitch ass Roddy White. The potential is there but he's lazy. Adding a speedy WR won't cure our offensive woes. If our studs like Turner regressed, then that's on the coaching. Guess what? Shula sucks.

Seattle were having identical issues. No run game, receivers struggling to get separation, and piss poor protection/blocking. What changed? Wilson got healthy and Bevell used his scrambling prowess again.

Everything you just said did not negate the fact we need speed in this offense.  Separation. We have none and the only person that gets that is Aging Ted Ginn Jr.  This offense needs that piece. 

 

Shula is part of the problem.  He may not be here. Which would be a blessing but I have my doubts. 

 

I ain't implying in early rounds either. The need is there. It's the only way this offense will evolve. 

[GoobyPls]

23 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

That's not really true.

To expect a "second rate LT" to come in and  be better then our starting LT (Oher) in their first year is a bit overly optimistic. I am guessing Oher probably graded out in the upper half of tackles in the league last year.  If quality tackles were really that easy to find there would be more of them. 

Personally I've thrown around Ross name in other threads.  I actually think he could fill a nice need in our offense.  I probably wouldn't draft him 8th with some of the other people available.  Now if we trade down I could see him coming into play in that 12-18 range.  Depending on who is gone at 8, trading down might be the smart play but honestly our GM hasn't shown a desire to trade down, unfortunately.

I watched the 2016 game and to say he destroyed him is a bit of an overstatement.  Robinson is a good run blocker, nobody is arguing that but pass protections is the issue.  Alabama only threw the ball 25 times that game and a lot of those throws were quick.  Cam does good at the college level with that team around him but how will he hold up at the pro level when Cam is taking forever to get rid of the ball?  He might allow more pressure then Oher.

The idea that all of resources go to offense is also a bit overplayed around here especially by the Cam apologist.  Our cap space is heavily tilted towards the offense.  I do agree the early picks have favored defense but its not like it has been all offense. 

We spent a first round pink on KB, traded up high in the second for Funchess, third round for Turner, fourth I think for Williams, added a FA left tackle, have one of the highest paid centers, one of highest paid running backs, one of highest paid full backs and an All Pro TE.  IF we need a high draft pick or high dollar free agent at every positon on offense to be successful maybe it is an issue with the coaches or the QB.

We could use the top 3 picks on offense for the next 10 years and there are some on here who will still cry about Cam "not having help" the minute we didn't score 50 in a game.

Its early in the draft process but I'm hoping we do lean somewhat towards offense in the first 3 rounds but I'm not about to say we should force some certain positions in the first round.  I would love to see some combination of DE, WR, TE, S, RB, and OT in the first three rounds. Problem is we only have 4 picks.

The fact is most players in the draft are no better then what is already in the league, A smaller percentage turn out to be JAGs. An even small percent turn out to be quality starters. A select few will turn out to be elite players, guys that would considered top-3 at their position in the league for an extended time.  How many of those do we actually have on the team?...3-6....Luke, Greg, Short, Turner, Kalil, Cam last year?  A few of those are getting older and honestly a few them are probably in the 4-6 range this year. league wide.

If we are picking in the top 10 that is the player you are looking for and even then it is no guarantee,  You just play odds and select the person you think has the best chance. 

 

Graded out high according to who? PFF? Oher has never been good, Baltimore had to sign an old Bryant McKinnie to move Oher to RT and they later went on to cut him. Oher is a decent RT forced to play LT, and before the injury this year he was horrible. Robinson is a better prospect in all aspects. And the panthers are a run heavy team just like Alabama so is not like he will be playing in New Orleans.

 

And all are resources have gone to defense, its not even debatable, here's a break down of our draft

Since 2011 we have used

2 first round picks on offense, 4 on defense 

2 second round picks on offense, 4 on defense 

1 third round pick on offense, 3 on defense 

3 forth round picks on offense, 4 on defense 

 

Keep in mind one of those first round picks was Cam. Since 2011 no other team in the league has drafted more defensive players per draft pick in the first 4 rounds than the panthers. You have no argument. Maybe if we more active in free agents I can see maybe where you have a argument, but outside of Green bay we are the least active team I free agency. Its come to the points where's its a ludicrous if we keep drafting defense

 

[TheGreatestOfAllTimeCam]

6 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

People in this forum really want to draft more defensive players? Really? Are we the Carolina Jets?

 

What are Adams, Barnettt, Garrett going to do? Will they help Cam develop? catch passes? block for Cam?

 

This organization and its fanbase has lost touch with today's NFL.

People in this forum are drinking the Gettleman Kool aid so hard man. 

[Yaboychris28]

Unless Fournette or Mike Williams is available, the defensive players hold better value inside the top 10

[AU-panther]

10 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Graded out high according to who? PFF? Oher has never been good, Baltimore had to sign an old Bryant McKinnie to move Oher to RT and they later went on to cut him. Oher is a decent RT forced to play LT, and before the injury this year he was horrible. Robinson is a better prospect in all aspects. And the panthers are a run heavy team just like Alabama so is not like he will be playing in New Orleans.

 

And all are resources have gone to defense, its not even debatable, here's a break down of our draft

Since 2011 we have used

2 first round picks on offense, 4 on defense 

2 second round picks on offense, 4 on defense 

1 third round pick on offense, 3 on defense 

3 forth round picks on offense, 4 on defense 

 

Keep in mind one of those first round picks was Cam. Since 2011 no other team in the league has drafted more defensive players per draft pick in the first 4 rounds than the panthers. You have no argument. Maybe if we more active in free agents I can see maybe where you have a argument, but outside of Green bay we are the least active team I free agency. Its come to the points where's its a ludicrous if we keep drafting defense

 

Unless someone around here watches coaches film of every player on every team, PFF is about as good as we have.  The average fan sits on his couch and watches the ball.  They notice the occasional good or bad play and form their "expert" opinions off of that.

example of Huddle Logic:

Michael Oher allows sack, Micheal Oher must be bad, every other tackle in the world has to be better.  Fans tend to think in binary terms.

And in regards to resources: 9th in offensive spending, last in defensive spending 

http://overthecap.com/positional-spending/

 

[CPF4LIFE]

26 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Graded out high according to who? PFF? Oher has never been good, Baltimore had to sign an old Bryant McKinnie to move Oher to RT and they later went on to cut him. Oher is a decent RT forced to play LT, and before the injury this year he was horrible. Robinson is a better prospect in all aspects. And the panthers are a run heavy team just like Alabama so is not like he will be playing in New Orleans.

 

And all are resources have gone to defense, its not even debatable, here's a break down of our draft

Since 2011 we have used

2 first round picks on offense, 4 on defense 

2 second round picks on offense, 4 on defense 

1 third round pick on offense, 3 on defense 

3 forth round picks on offense, 4 on defense 

 

Keep in mind one of those first round picks was Cam. Since 2011 no other team in the league has drafted more defensive players per draft pick in the first 4 rounds than the panthers. You have no argument. Maybe if we more active in free agents I can see maybe where you have a argument, but outside of Green bay we are the least active team I free agency. Its come to the points where's its a ludicrous if we keep drafting defense

 

This is all very true, but I feel like if u got a unique talent like Adams or hooker available you gotta take one. Just better overall players then robinson. I didn't feel that way about Shaq or Butler tho and those picks could have certainly been offense.

[CRA]

1 hour ago, AU-panther said:

That's not really true.

To expect a "second rate LT" to come in and  be better then our starting LT (Oher) in their first year is a bit overly optimistic. I am guessing Oher probably graded out in the upper half of tackles in the league last year.  If quality tackles were really that easy to find there would be more of them. 

Personally I've thrown around Ross name in other threads.  I actually think he could fill a nice need in our offense.  I probably wouldn't draft him 8th with some of the other people available.  Now if we trade down I could see him coming into play in that 12-18 range.  Depending on who is gone at 8, trading down might be the smart play but honestly our GM hasn't shown a desire to trade down, unfortunately.

I watched the 2016 game and to say he destroyed him is a bit of an overstatement.  Robinson is a good run blocker, nobody is arguing that but pass protections is the issue.  Alabama only threw the ball 25 times that game and a lot of those throws were quick.  Cam does good at the college level with that team around him but how will he hold up at the pro level when Cam is taking forever to get rid of the ball?  He might allow more pressure then Oher.

The idea that all of resources go to offense is also a bit overplayed around here especially by the Cam apologist.  Our cap space is heavily tilted towards the offense.  I do agree the early picks have favored defense but its not like it has been all offense. 

We spent a first round pink on KB, traded up high in the second for Funchess, third round for Turner, fourth I think for Williams, added a FA left tackle, have one of the highest paid centers, one of highest paid running backs, one of highest paid full backs and an All Pro TE.  IF we need a high draft pick or high dollar free agent at every positon on offense to be successful maybe it is an issue with the coaches or the QB.

We could use the top 3 picks on offense for the next 10 years and there are some on here who will still cry about Cam "not having help" the minute we didn't score 50 in a game.

Its early in the draft process but I'm hoping we do lean somewhat towards offense in the first 3 rounds but I'm not about to say we should force some certain positions in the first round.  I would love to see some combination of DE, WR, TE, S, RB, and OT in the first three rounds. Problem is we only have 4 picks.

The fact is most players in the draft are no better then what is already in the league, A smaller percentage turn out to be JAGs. An even small percent turn out to be quality starters. A select few will turn out to be elite players, guys that would considered top-3 at their position in the league for an extended time.  How many of those do we actually have on the team?...3-6....Luke, Greg, Short, Turner, Kalil, Cam last year?  A few of those are getting older and honestly a few them are probably in the 4-6 range this year. league wide.

If we are picking in the top 10 that is the player you are looking for and even then it is no guarantee,  You just play odds and select the person you think has the best chance. 

 

Only way Oher grades out in the upper half is when people ignore the fact we lived in max protection to get all those pass plays off. 

OL was trash last year.  Teams just let us help our OL pass protect all season because they couldn't on there own 

[GoobyPls]

5 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Unless someone around here watches coaches film of every player on every team, PFF is about as good as we have.  The average fan sits on his couch and watches the ball.  They notice the occasional good or bad play and form their "expert" opinions off of that.

example of Huddle Logic:

Michael Oher allows sack, Micheal Oher must be bad, every other tackle in the world has to be better.  Fans tend to think in binary terms.

And in regards to resources: 9th in offensive spending, last in defensive spending 

http://overthecap.com/positional-spending/

 

Plenty people watch game film and they watch it more than once unlike PFF. Also their grading scale makes no sense. BTW grading our O-line should come with a curve we use more max protection than any team in the league. So Oher is constantly getting helped.

 

It funny you use that cap to try and validate your argument when we are playing Cam over 20 mill a year.  Oh if you like cap why not mention we have the CHEAPEST WR corp in the league. And one of the cheapest o-lines in the league.  That went right over your head huh?

[Daddy_Uncle]

You have to take what's available at your pick. We don't need a QB or WR. If That Alabama tackle is available or one of the top running backs, I'm confident we will take one. It just so happens most of the talent at the top is defensive and at positions we need.. safety and DE. I will be pissed if we don't fix the Oline this offseason but I will be okay and understand going defense in the first with a top 10 pick

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, Daddy_Uncle said:

You have to take what's available at your pick. We don't need a QB or WR. If That Alabama tackle is available or one of the top running backs, I'm confident we will take one. It just so happens most of the talent at the top is defensive and at positions we need.. safety and DE. I will be pissed if we don't fix the Oline this offseason but I will be okay and understand going defense in the first with a top 10 pick

We do need a WR.  We don't have any good overall WRs on the roster.  Ginn is our best WR...THAT is a huge red flag.

we need a lot though.  What we haven't needed the last two years is to draft a LB and DT in the first 

[AU-panther]

9 minutes ago, CRA said:

Only way Oher grades out in the upper half is when people ignore the fact we lived in max protection to get all those pass plays off. 

OL was trash last year.  Teams just let us help our OL pass protect all season because they couldn't on there own 

That is somewhat offset by the fact that our QB holds on to the ball longer then most QBs, some of which is part of our offensive philosophy apparently.  I would think our offensive would be one of the harder ones to block for. 

Do we really live in max protection more then most teams?  I've never seen a stat on it or took the time to watch every team every weekend.

[Captain Obvious]

Plenty people watch game film and they watch it more than once unlike PFF. Also their grading scale makes no sense. BTW grading our O-line should come with a curve we use more max protection than any team in the league. So Oher is constantly getting helped.

 

It funny you use that cap to try and validate your argument when we are playing Cam over 20 mill a year.  Oh if you like cap why not mention we have the CHEAPEST WR corp in the league. And one of the cheapest o-lines in the league.  That went right over your head huh?

Where can i get a copy of game film? If you have a source . are they able to get other teams? I would love to get my hands on the offense cut ups of the o line. I agree PFF sucks.

Sent from my SM-G920V using CarolinaHuddle mobile app

[Bartin]

Offense is needed but in this draft, going defense in the 1st is probably the best plan. Then draft offense in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th. Other than RB(Cook/Fournette) I don't think there is any other position where taking an offensive player at 8 is the best pick.

[GoobyPls]

2 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Where can i get a copy of game film? If you have a source . are they able to get other teams? I would love to get my hands on the offense cut ups of the o line. I agree PFF sucks.

Sent from my SM-G920V using CarolinaHuddle mobile app
 

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