Dalvin Cook or Jamal Adams in the 1st?

[AU-panther]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

So, we shouldn't draft an elite RB prospect simply because we need to upgrade the OL? What would you suggest instead? Reaching on an OT out of desperation?

Stew is on the wrong side of 30 and has always been a major injury concern. The answer for his replacement is not currently on the roster.

Not sure who this is directed at, but I would strongly consider Fournette if he fell to us and said so in my post.  I'm just not convinced any of the other RBs are worth us using our first round pick on with the other needs we have.  Everyone likes to talk about Dallas and Elliot but they pretty much had their offense set.  He was the last piece, not the first.

I wouldn't reach for a tackle out of desperation but there are other positions we could address also.  In that 8-12 range there should be a really good safety, wr, or de to choose from.  All of which could help our team overall as much as a rb.  Depending on who you listen to Cam Robinson could fall in that range also and might be worth a pick there.

A receiver like John Ross might actually add more to the offense then a RB like Cook.  Also by drafting Ross you might not have to resign Ginn so you might get a comp pick if he signs elsewhere.  also by keeping Stew for one more year there is a chance you get a comp pick if the signs with someone else the following year.  Now granted I don't really see either signing a huge contract somewhere else but you might get a 6th or 7th.  Also it might help to cancel out any player that we add in free agency.  If you sign someone to replace Stewart in that 8-12 range you are probably planning on letting Stewart go early to save on cap space.

So in theory it could be Stew + Ross + 6th or 7th + another 6th or 7th

or Cook + Ginn

You might even be able to add a rb/slot type in a later round to compliment Stewart.  Someone like McCaffrey (and yes I know there is a chance he might go at the end of the first) or Curtis Samuel from Ohio State.

Its not always about the best player available, its about who they replace and the expected gain in production for the team as a whole.

 

 

 

[LinvilleGorge]

Oh, I'm 100% with you there. Fournette is the only RB in the draft that I'd be willing to take in the top 10.

[grimesgoat]

7 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Oh, I'm 100% with you there. Fournette is the only RB in the draft that I'd be willing to take in the top 10.

I agree.  Only Fournette in the first.  Otherwise I'm looking at Hood in the 4th.  A Stewart clone that is overshadowed due to a deep RB draft.

[LinvilleGorge]

Hood has been criminally misused by UNC this season. Dude's a beast.

[Bartin]

31 minutes ago, Panthercougar68 said:

People forget that G man is not gonna draft a tackle 1st round just for the sake of drafting a tackle. If that tackle is graded to be the best player at that point then yeah he will draft him. He is looking for impact players in the first and Adams at this point in the draft is that player.

Cam Robinson is banking off the fact that this is a bad tackle draft all together.

Impact players? His last two 1st round players haven't even had a chance to be starters due to the players ahead of them at their position and barely get 20 snaps a game. That's like the exact opposite of an impact player.

[grimesgoat]

2 minutes ago, Bartin said:

Impact players? His last two 1st round players haven't even had a chance to be starters due to the players ahead of them at their position and barely get 20 snaps a game. That's like the exact opposite of an impact player.

Not sure how many "impact" players are available each year.  Panthers have drafted 28, 25, and 31 over the last 3 years.  Might be easier to get an impact player drafting near the top of the draft for a change. 

[Panthercougar68]

5 minutes ago, Bartin said:

Impact players? His last two 1st round players haven't even had a chance to be starters due to the players ahead of them at their position and barely get 20 snaps a game. That's like the exact opposite of an impact player.

If I change that to BPA will it make you feel better.

drafting late first round isn't the same as top 10 which we haven't done in 3 years.

[shaqattaq]

Adams

[CRA]

1 hour ago, Panthercougar68 said:

People forget that G man is not gonna draft a tackle 1st round just for the sake of drafting a tackle. If that tackle is graded to be the best player at that point then yeah he will draft him. He is looking for impact players in the first and Adams at this point in the draft is that player.

Cam Robinson is banking off the fact that this is a bad tackle draft all together.

he is looking for impact players?

he drafted guys in the first round the last two years who in ideal scenario for our team.....backup SUPERSTARS for sesaonS.  

I mean, it would take injury for one of his recent picks to legitimately be impactful (impactful in terms of what teams want a first rounder to do - which is be a starter pretty quick)

[Fox007]

Mike Williams

[grimesgoat]

12 minutes ago, CRA said:

he is looking for impact players?

he drafted guys in the first round the last two years who in ideal scenario for our team.....backup SUPERSTARS for sesaonS.  

I mean, it would take injury for one of his recent picks to legitimately be impactful (impactful in terms of what teams want a first rounder to do)

Gman seems to approach the draft a little differently than most think he should. So far he's only been able to pick at the end of the first round so there may not be any instant superstars in areas of need left on the board.  He's tried to fill most of his needs prior to the draft with the small scraps of cash he has available.  Then for the draft, I think he is looking a little further into the future and identifying players that will be major contributors in their 3rd - 8th years.  This may change this year with his first high draft pick - we'll see.

Honest question - who was picked in round 2 or later that will have more of an impact in the NFL in 2018 than Butler?  I liked Ogbah myself, but having a disruptive DT under a 5-year rookie deal has its advantages.  Especially if Short has played himself out of our price range.

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

Gman seems to approach the draft a little differently than most think he should. So far he's only been able to pick at the end of the first round so there may not be any instant superstars in areas of need left on the board.  He's tried to fill most of his needs prior to the draft with the small scraps of cash he has available.  Then for the draft, I think he is looking a little further into the future and identifying players that will be major contributors in their 3rd - 8th years.  This may change this year with his first high draft pick - we'll see.

Honest question - who was picked in round 2 or later that will have more of an impact in the NFL in 2018 than Butler?  I liked Ogbah myself, but having a disruptive DT under a 5-year rookie deal has its advantages.  Especially if Short has played himself out of our price range.

teams don't generally think a first rounder will be an instant superstar....more like a functioning player at an area of need that they hope shows flashes of the superstar they will become.

your question.  Well, I assume KK and Star are still here.  So that makes Butler at best our 3rd best overall DT most likely in 2018 which will limit his ability to get reps.   So I would say basically any pick that has worked themselves into a legit starting position has good odds of being more impactful for their team (even if they aren't as good of a player head to head).  Goes back to my issue of over stacking at one position with talent.  It doesn't make you that much better in reality when you are just basically getting the same level of play at the spot and your weakness remains.  The Double Trouble argument that I have made for years.   An extreme example is you could get Aaron Rodgers to backup Tom Brady.  That doesn't really make you any better at all.....you would be better off replacing a really bad player with an okay player (even though the gap between Rodgers and the okay player is comical....the okay player makes you better most likely)

 

[grimesgoat]

23 minutes ago, CRA said:

teams don't generally think a first rounder will be an instant superstar....more like a functioning player at an area of need that they hope shows flashes of the superstar they will become.

your question.  Well, I assume KK and Star are still here.  So that makes Butler at best our 3rd best overall DT most likely in 2018 which will limit his ability to get reps.   So I would say basically any pick that has worked themselves into a legit starting position has good odds of being more impactful for their team (even if they aren't as good of a player head to head).  Goes back to my issue of over stacking at one position with talent.  It doesn't make you that much better in reality when you are just basically getting the same level of play at the spot and your weakness remains.  The Double Trouble argument that I have made for years.   An extreme example is you could get Aaron Rodgers to backup Tom Brady.  That doesn't really make you any better at all.....you would be better off replacing a really bad player with an okay player (even though the gap between Rodgers and the okay player is comical....the okay player makes you better most likely)

 

fair enough.  I wouldn't draft a qb if I already have a franchise qb.

So do you draft the best football player available or do you draft for what you believe is a need?  If you've filled in the gaps in Free Agency, there are no needs and the answer is simple. 

What were our needs at the time of the draft?  We'd just extended Oher.  Benjamin was back.  We signed CJ at DE.  The only somewhat immediate need we had was corner, so we drafted 3 of them. If you know Oher will last only 1.5 games, maybe you draft a T.  The next T off the board after our pick was Spriggs at 48, who was graded below Butler. So far in 2016 he's played about 200 snaps, mostly at RG, so I doubt he's the answer.  In hindsight, we could've used a safety but after our pick, the next safeties off the board were Greene and Bell who went 57 and 61.  Both were graded well below Butler.

I think the only guys that made sense at that spot were Ogbah, Butler, and Henry.  They were all available and were graded about the same.  The deciding factor may have been how much it would cost to keep Short, making Butler the safer pick.

[4Corners]

5 hours ago, Mistuh Jones said:

The case was thrown out. Plus he is returning for his SR. Year inexplicably

Hadn't heard about him returning next year.

refarding his legal troubles - where there is smoke there is fire. It's been documented that the FSU players are above the law and the court system and police will try their best to look the other way if one of them gets in trouble. It's been like this for decades in Tallahassee for any delinquent member of the FSU CrimiNOLES football team. 

The only reason that backup QB was kicked off the team this year is because they have indisputable evidence of him sucker punching a drunk girl half his size.