Mike Shula: Cam Newton is not to blame solely

[pantherphan96]

3 hours ago, pantherclaw said:

How does a coach make major adjustments when injuries ravage the team, and execution is highly inconsistent.?

Nothing can be done about the injuries but he can't call plays like Cam still has a healthy OL and like teams don't know how to attack our OL or scheme against our runs.

[KillerKat]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Oher was injured in week 2. He played hurt (and poorly) through week 3. So basically we had a healthy starting left tackle for all of one full game this year.

Bradberry was injured on the first play of week 4. Vernon Butler got hurt somewhere in that stretch as well, as were others.

And of course there was game 5 where we played without a guy named Cam Newton.

This is the second or third time I've seen people suggest that we were largely injury free through the first six weeks. I don't know where this narrative comes from, but it's completely off the mark.

Every team has a couple of injuries. Those few are no excuse except game 5. So 1-4 excluding that game instead of 1-5. What a difference. We play the injury card this year, retain everyone and watch us suck another year and waste the talents of Newton and Kuechly. Every other good team can overcome injuries. We seem to use it as an excuse to fail. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, KillerKat said:

Every team has a couple of injuries. Those few are no excuse except game 5. So 1-4 excluding that game instead of 1-5. What a difference. We play the injury card this year, retain everyone and watch us suck another year and waste the talents of Newton and Kuechly. Every other good team can overcome injuries. We seem to use it as an excuse to fail. 

There aren't many teams that would be unaffected by the loss of their starting left tackle or their number one corner, much less both.

To be clear, I'm not in favor of "playing the injury card" and I'm absolutely not up for keeping everybody. Regardless, suggesting that Injuries had nothing to do with our struggles is just ignoring reality.

[Darvinsun]

11 hours ago, panthers55 said:

If you are going to make comments be accurate. For example Matso wasn't the only guy promoted. You clearly didn't even read what you linked. Brown was also.promoted.

Carroll talked about the run game because that is what Shula revamped and was creative. Was out pass game creative with the worse receivers in the league? Under Chud we were flashy but we went 13-19. Under Shula we are 41-20 or so. We have the offense that Rivera wanted and the results are self evident.

Are there better OCS out there? Of course. How many.looking for jobs with a better winning percentage in the past 4 years? 

 

Under chud the defense was not as good i think we had luke one year under chud..we had leads scored a bunch of points but could not sustain..same as now but defense is better now.

[Darvinsun]

8 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Again what part of the fact that our team is built around the defense don't you understand. Our offense is built to complement our defense which is why it is a ball control offense. It isn't designed like New Orleans for example. So bringing up the fact our defense helps the offense is no more true than our defense is a top 10 defense because of the offense. 

What is unbelievable is that you and other Shula haters keep up the same drone over and over and blame everything on Shula and give Newton a total pass. The reality is he has sucked as well this year and speculation about how great he would be without Shula is just that, speculation nothing more.

Even though the offense is to match the defense. You still have to have situational awareness which is what Shula and Riveria lacks...You have to have a back up plan when what you want to do is not working..It is called adjustments and if you are not practicing these situations then you are dumb to think every team you play is just going to let you do what you want to do..There is no way they thought their defense would be as good as it was last yr with important pieces missing from the unit and playing a different schedule as well. If so then this team is lost under this staff. You have to adjust..adjustments should have been made during camp. Shula relied on plays that were successful last year and changed nothing up...given that payne and bird have been here 2 yrs their should have been wrinkles created for them to play in some games...Benji goofing up consistantly should have been given some down time..I know injuries happened but you are suppose to be able to adjust...Everyone knows that panthers are a ball control team...but when thats taken away what are you going to do...Adjust which is not what happen in any games where they were challenged.

[Icege]

LOL Got me there on Brown, but that doesn't invalidate that Matsko had a huge part to do with last year's run game that you're attempting to credit Shula with. If anything, that's just a desperate attempt to discredit the speaker rather than the content.

Under Chud we also never had a defense ranked in the top half of the league while Shula has only had winning seasons with a top 10 defense. Nakamura in Atlanta, anyone? The team couldn't keep other offenses out of the end zone. That's not Chud''s fault. His side put up numbers. Shula struggles to maintain leads even with a top 5 D backing him.

As far as Shula's winning percentage goes: when he doesn't have an elite (top 10) defense gifting him field position, he's 13-17-1. 

Can the team win in spite of him? They sure can, and they have! Now just complete the prophecy and fire him so that we can win a championship just like Alabama & Tampa Bay did when they did the same.

[Icege]

Oh and let's quit this "complement the defense" nonsense.

A team needs to be able to win in all 3 phases of the game. If we are playing to complement the defense then that's even MORE of a reason to get rid of Shula because each side of the ball needs to be able to compensate for one another, not compliment one.

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, Darvinsun said:

Under chud the defense was not as good i think we had luke one year under chud..we had leads scored a bunch of points but could not sustain..same as now but defense is better now.

Under Chud we had lots of 3 and out and long passes but not many sustained drives. The defense was on the field too long and broke down. We also gained lots of yards when we were behind. There was discussion that this type of offense hurt the defense.

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, Darvinsun said:

Even though the offense is to match the defense. You still have to have situational awareness which is what Shula and Riveria lacks...You have to have a back up plan when what you want to do is not working..It is called adjustments and if you are not practicing these situations then you are dumb to think every team you play is just going to let you do what you want to do..There is no way they thought their defense would be as good as it was last yr with important pieces missing from the unit and playing a different schedule as well. If so then this team is lost under this staff. You have to adjust..adjustments should have been made during camp. Shula relied on plays that were successful last year and changed nothing up...given that payne and bird have been here 2 yrs their should have been wrinkles created for them to play in some games...Benji goofing up consistantly should have been given some down time..I know injuries happened but you are suppose to be able to adjust...Everyone knows that panthers are a ball control team...but when thats taken away what are you going to do...Adjust which is not what happen in any games where they were challenged.

So we win lots of games last year and make great adjustments and this year we lose lots of games and supposedly can't adjust, what do you think happens? Coaches lose their mind or skill level. Or they can adjust sometimes and not others,? For something to be missing it has to be always missing not there one year and gone the next.

[panthers55]

14 minutes ago, Icege said:

LOL Got me there on Brown, but that doesn't invalidate that Matsko had a huge part to do with last year's run game that you're attempting to credit Shula with. If anything, that's just a desperate attempt to discredit the speaker rather than the content.

Under Chud we also never had a defense ranked in the top half of the league while Shula has only had winning seasons with a top 10 defense. Nakamura in Atlanta, anyone? The team couldn't keep other offenses out of the end zone. That's not Chud''s fault. His side put up numbers. Shula struggles to maintain leads even with a top 5 D backing him.

As far as Shula's winning percentage goes: when he doesn't have an elite (top 10) defense gifting him field position, he's 13-17-1. 

Can the team win in spite of him? They sure can, and they have! Now just complete the prophecy and fire him so that we can win a championship just like Alabama & Tampa Bay did when they did the same.

Under Chud we never had a winning season. Under Shula we had 2. Gee I guess the defense got better all by itself and the offense never helped although miraculously the same year that Shula becomes the OC we go from 7-9 to 12-4. Yeah the offense had nothing to do with it. Laughable really.

And let's not say when he doesn't have a top 10 defense he is 13-17. How about when he doesn't have a top 20 defense and has injuries to key positions like quarterback and the OLine he still almost has a 500 record.

[panthers55]

17 minutes ago, Icege said:

Oh and let's quit this "complement the defense" nonsense.

A team needs to be able to win in all 3 phases of the game. If we are playing to complement the defense then that's even MORE of a reason to get rid of Shula because each side of the ball needs to be able to compensate for one another, not compliment one.

If you don't know that units work together and it takes a team effort in all three areas to be complete and win, there is nothing to talk about since clearly you don't have a clue about football being the ultimate team sport. Things don't work in isolation 

[Icege]

6 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Under Chud we never had a winning season. Under Shula we had 2. Gee I guess the defense got better all by itself and the offense never helped although miraculously the same year that Shula becomes the OC we go from 7-9 to 12-4. Yeah the offense had nothing to do with it. Laughable really.

And let's not say when he doesn't have a top 10 defense he is 13-17. How about when he doesn't have a top 20 defense and has injuries to key positions like quarterback and the OLine he still almost has a 500 record.

Under Chud we also spent 2 seasons rebuilding from the lockout and started off with the Hurney "Core Contracts" without ever having a defense that ranked even in the top half of the league.

Under Shula we've had 2 losing seasons with a rebuilt roster when we haven't had a top 10 defense. In fact, he's had one season where his offense ranked in the top 10 (15-1).

I like how you mention we went from 7-9 to 12-4, but then fail to mention how we went from 12-4 to 7-8-1 and now 15-1 to 6-10/7-9. ;). Keep laughing though, maybe you'll eventually get the joke that Shula is.

During the two losing seasons, he was missing Cam for 2 of those games. Both were against TB and DA won the first one.

I get that you can't rationally defend your emotional stance on this, otherwise you wouldn't be trying so desperately to discredit me rather than what I'm saying, but let's try to be adults. Try and make a post where you can defend your stance without bullshit like "He didn't have Cam during those losing seasons!!!" when that's clearly false as well as "Shula is responsible for our run game!" which has also already been proven to be false.

If you like Shula, that's fine. You're more than welcome to. Hell, for all I care you can follow him to whatever team makes him a QB coach again. Just stop trying to act like he's been successful when he's at best ridden the coattails of the defense and acting like a petulant child when you can't properly defend your position.

[pantherclaw]

20 hours ago, pantherphan96 said:

Nothing can be done about the injuries but he can't call plays like Cam still has a healthy OL and like teams don't know how to attack our OL or scheme against our runs.

No, but he can call plays that  the players at practice, are expected to execute.

[E CaT PanTHer 2]

the blame can be spread everywhere this year. There's not a soul you can exclude except for Luke, TD, Olsen, Bradberry, and Stewart. Everyone else from the players, coaches, all the way up to management can take some share of the blame.