Mike Shula: Cam Newton is not to blame solely

[Mr. Scot]

I'm still not holding my breath on the coaching staff "evolving".

Think back to a few years ago when Richard Rodgers coached the worst special teams unit in the league. Was he fired? Nope. He was moved over to coaching safeties instead.

(which probably says a lot about our safety play too)

[NanuqoftheNorth]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm still not holding my breath on the coaching staff "evolving".

Think back to a few years ago when Richard Rodgers coached the worst special teams unit in the league. Was he fired? Nope. He was moved over to coaching safeties instead.

(which probably says a lot about our safety play too)

This ^^^ chances of anyone on the coaching staff losing their job is remote at best.

2016 will be chalked up to injuries.

[JARROD]

Well one thing is it takes a long term "next man up" atmosphere.

We don't have that here. When all the pieces are in and clicking we are good and when some things go wrong we suck.

The Steelers, Patriots especially above all do it better and different.

The Patriots had backup tight ends playing oline and they did ok, made it work, even prospered.

We just don't have that here and have never had.

Other programs did and do for many years and excel-- their down years are playoffs no Super Bowl-- ours is the suck.

Fix that culture--


Sent from my iPhone using CarolinaHuddle

[Icege]

8 hours ago, panthers55 said:

I think you are being a bit biased. Denver said we didn't change up our plays from what we ran during the year not that it was simole or easy to attack. Truth is a few plays go our way and no sack fumble TDs and we could have easily won the SB. Matso obviously helps as do all the offensive coaches. Shuls invites input from coaches and players a like. One of his strengths is the ability to learn from others and collaborate.

He like many folks given a famous name often find that is a burden as well a gift. It may have helped him get started but then get used as the reason you did anything making it hard to get credit for your own accomplishments. Last year he was widely touted as one of the best OCs in the league. I guess he got amnesia and forgot everything this year since he now sucks.

Regarding the "simple" offense:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000634573/article/broncos-pound-panthers-offense-say-cam-newton-tapped-out
 

Quote

"They really have a simple offense. They come out in a bunch of different formations that they shift around, and they run one or two plays out of them. If you can figure out the formations, what they do is really simple. We knew he wasn't gonna come out and tear us up. We knew all their looks."

Regarding Matsko and the run game:

http://www.panthers.com/news/article-2/Assistant-Coaches-Promoted/b495a750-9960-4c71-9e7e-045e27c7dc49

Quote

Matsko, even before his title change to running game coordinator, played a major role in the Panthers rushing for 100 or more yards in 32 consecutive games – the longest streak in the NFL since 1978.

"Moving Coach Matsko to running game coordinator is really just a show of respect for what he's done as far as our offense is concerned," Rivera said. "Promoting Ray to offensive line coach is something he has earned."

Shula has had one successful season as an offensive coordinator where his offense finished in the top 16 of the league and that was last season. He has never ran a high-powered offense outside of last season where he had the league MVP, a top 10 all-time TE, and an OL that was relatively injury free. Having a top 5 defense gifting them amazing field position and holding teams also went a very, very long way.

[AceBoogie]

11 hours ago, Promethean Forerunner said:

No he didn't. He said we needed more talent. Big difference. A good OC can work around weak pieces. A bad OC begs the GM for a juggernaut. Get your facts right. Shula is a fugging 'yes' man. That's why Rivera hired his pathetic ass.

And a defensive minded head coach should be able to work with less on defense yet that's where we keep investing 

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, Icege said:

Regarding the "simple" offense:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000634573/article/broncos-pound-panthers-offense-say-cam-newton-tapped-out
 

Regarding Matsko and the run game:

http://www.panthers.com/news/article-2/Assistant-Coaches-Promoted/b495a750-9960-4c71-9e7e-045e27c7dc49

Shula has had one successful season as an offensive coordinator where his offense finished in the top 16 of the league and that was last season. He has never ran a high-powered offense outside of last season where he had the league MVP, a top 10 all-time TE, and an OL that was relatively injury free. Having a top 5 defense gifting them amazing field position and holding teams also went a very, very long way.

And this is what Carroll said about us last year before we beat them the last time in the playoffs.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000622377/article/pete-carroll-panthers-are-toughest-offense-we-face%3FnetworkId%3D4595%26site%3D.news%26zone%3Dstory%26zoneUrl%3Durl%3Dstory%26zoneKeys%3Ds1%3Dstory%26env%3D%26pageKeyValues%3Dprtnr%3Daround-the-league%3Bteam%3Darz%3Bteam%3Dcin%3Bteam%3Dpit%3Bteam%3Dcar%3Bteam%3Dsea%3Bconf%3Dnfc%3Bconf%3Dafc%3Bdvsn%3Dncw%3Bdvsn%3Dacn%3Bdvsn%3Dncs%3Bplyr%3Djonathan_stewart%3Bplyr%3Drichard_sherman%26p.ct%3DAround%2Bthe%2BNFL%26p.adsm%3Dfalse%26p.tcm%3D%23fff%26p.bgc1m%3D%230964bf%26p.bgc2m%3D%23053a74%26sr%3Damp?client=ms-android-verizon

So if you are a supporter of our team and coaches you go with Carroll. If you are a critic of Shula and the team you go with Denver. We should have beat Denver this year except for a missed field goal that he made the first time.

Matso wasn't the only guy promoted in 2016. This is common in the league after a big season when you are trying to retain your staff and are afraid they will be poached. It hardly means they were the major reason for our success simply we want to retain what we had so we pay them more and give them a new title.  Well deserved in my opinion. 

As for Shula not having great offenses, he has coordinated for two head coaches who were defensive minded coaches and bent their team's toward the defense not the offense. They both wanted ball control offenses that controlled the clock and didn't make mistakes and threw when they needed to. The emphasis was winning on defense not offense. So you only can be successful with the personnel and within the system you are given. To that effect Shula has been very successful here given what everyone says last year was a limited offense talent wise.  This year we had a top 10 offense points wise until all the injuries to the line and Cam got shell shocked. 

Shula will never be the best offensive coordinator out there nor will we always field the best offense. Look at the talent level on offense between Atlanta and us this year. You only can-do so much with what you have to work with. The problem this year was the offense had to carry the defense this year and that is not how we are built. I have always maintained that Shula is effective if he has the personnel to run his scheme. This year he did not. 

So criticizing the offense by.pointing out the defense is almost funny if you remember that we are built that way so it is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. We could be New Orleans who have terrific offenses and no defenses. Few if any teams have both which is why we went 15-1 last year. If you want a great offense go with Dallas or Atlanta.  As long as Richardson is here we will be a defensive minded team with decent offenses.

[Ivan The Awesome]

That's nice and all. Shula taking responsibility. What i'd like to know is, how will he actually evolve the offense if he doesn't have the vision for it? Time and time again we've seen his play calling and playbook. There literally has to be maybe 3% quick pass plays in that book. He's not known to be an offensive mind. It feels like he's been doing what he can just to get by. So again, how will you change this offense? 

 

Bring in an consultant? Or replace Shula completely? 

[panthers55]

6 hours ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

This ^^^ chances of anyone on the coaching staff losing their job is remote at best.

2016 will be chalked up to injuries.

As it should be.

[panthers55]

39 minutes ago, Ivan The Awesome said:

That's nice and all. Shula taking responsibility. What i'd like to know is, how will he actually evolve the offense if he doesn't have the vision for it? Time and time again we've seen his play calling and playbook. There literally has to be maybe 3% quick pass plays in that book. He's not known to be an offensive mind. It feels like he's been doing what he can just to get by. So again, how will you change this offense? 

 

Bring in an consultant? Or replace Shula completely? 

Here are my thoughts about the evolution. It won't be short passes or a change to a WCO or even E-P although the E-P is pretty doable.  And given that Shula was a college QB, short time pro QB (back-up) and a QB coach for traditional passing attacks he surely has the knowledge and ability.

But the evolution will hopefully include upgrades at offensive tackle, upgrades at tight end (other that Olsen) and a more traditional running attack with hopefully more 2 tight end sets where both can block and catch much like we had in 2011 in Cam's rookie campaign. 

Hopefully we upgrade at running back given we have little behind Stewart and he isn't getting younger. This evolution offensively may be a plea to Gettleman to upgrade personnel which went on deaf ears in 2016 relying on Cam to make it work. With a dialing back of Cam's running it will necessitate an influx of talent to make up the difference.

 

[panthers55]

3 hours ago, AceBoogie said:

And a defensive minded head coach should be able to work with less on defense yet that's where we keep investing 

 Yep.

And we all saw this year on defense that if you don't have vet talent in one area (secondary) it doesn't matter how good your other vets are. Just like a hurt or poor offensive line can make your offense look bad regardless of the talent you have at other individual positions like QB, RB or TE. 

[beastson]

I'm glad to hear Shula make it clear it's a combination of things and how its not easy as some people think it is

[pantherphan96]

Shula was right to suggest to Gman and Rivera that the offense needed to evolve and some of the blame does fall on the front office for throwing a slightly worse product out there and expecting similar results as last year. But Shula tried to use the same gameplan as last year even though it obviously was not going to work. The complete lack of adjustments this year is unacceptable and if Shula is the sacrificial lamb so be it.

[beastson]

This year they weren't relying on Cam, they were relying on their defense as Ron likes to win with. The defense wasn't the same, which is why we're missing the playoffs. Ron can't make the playoffs without a top 10 defense

[Icege]

22 hours ago, panthers55 said:

And this is what Carroll said about us last year before we beat them the last time in the playoffs.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000622377/article/pete-carroll-panthers-are-toughest-offense-we-face%3FnetworkId%3D4595%26site%3D.news%26zone%3Dstory%26zoneUrl%3Durl%3Dstory%26zoneKeys%3Ds1%3Dstory%26env%3D%26pageKeyValues%3Dprtnr%3Daround-the-league%3Bteam%3Darz%3Bteam%3Dcin%3Bteam%3Dpit%3Bteam%3Dcar%3Bteam%3Dsea%3Bconf%3Dnfc%3Bconf%3Dafc%3Bdvsn%3Dncw%3Bdvsn%3Dacn%3Bdvsn%3Dncs%3Bplyr%3Djonathan_stewart%3Bplyr%3Drichard_sherman%26p.ct%3DAround%2Bthe%2BNFL%26p.adsm%3Dfalse%26p.tcm%3D%23fff%26p.bgc1m%3D%230964bf%26p.bgc2m%3D%23053a74%26sr%3Damp?client=ms-android-verizon

So if you are a supporter of our team and coaches you go with Carroll. If you are a critic of Shula and the team you go with Denver. We should have beat Denver this year except for a missed field goal that he made the first time.

Matso wasn't the only guy promoted in 2016. This is common in the league after a big season when you are trying to retain your staff and are afraid they will be poached. It hardly means they were the major reason for our success simply we want to retain what we had so we pay them more and give them a new title.  Well deserved in my opinion. 

As for Shula not having great offenses, he has coordinated for two head coaches who were defensive minded coaches and bent their team's toward the defense not the offense. They both wanted ball control offenses that controlled the clock and didn't make mistakes and threw when they needed to. The emphasis was winning on defense not offense. So you only can be successful with the personnel and within the system you are given. To that effect Shula has been very successful here given what everyone says last year was a limited offense talent wise.  This year we had a top 10 offense points wise until all the injuries to the line and Cam got shell shocked. 

Shula will never be the best offensive coordinator out there nor will we always field the best offense. Look at the talent level on offense between Atlanta and us this year. You only can-do so much with what you have to work with. The problem this year was the offense had to carry the defense this year and that is not how we are built. I have always maintained that Shula is effective if he has the personnel to run his scheme. This year he did not. 

So criticizing the offense by.pointing out the defense is almost funny if you remember that we are built that way so it is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. We could be New Orleans who have terrific offenses and no defenses. Few if any teams have both which is why we went 15-1 last year. If you want a great offense go with Dallas or Atlanta.  As long as Richardson is here we will be a defensive minded team with decent offenses.

The only thing that Carroll complimented the offense on in that article you linked is the diversity of the run game which he then pointed towards Cam Newton being the reason. Not design or calling. I'd also take the opinion of a team that beat the poo out of the offense over a team that got the poo beat out of them by it.

Matsko was the only guy promoted in relation to the offense due to his contribution to the run game, which was what Carroll tauted. The run game was not a product of Shula. It was a product of Matsko and Newton imo.

Chud also worked for Rivera. Shanhan works for Quinn. I get what you're saying and agree to an extent, but you're saying that Shula isn't the problem folks claim him to be when he's running an offense which you even admit is supposed to make our MVP a game manager ("They both wanted ball control offenses that controlled the clock and didn't make mistakes and threw when they needed to. The emphasis was winning on defense not offense.")

When Rivera first came to this team, he talked about putting guys in positions to succeed and not holding to a strict system. It was during one of his initial press conferences. When you say that he has to have the right pieces, that goes against what he preached this team would be doing.

This team didn't change to that style until Shula became the head coach and Chud took the HC position in Cleveland. Under Shula this team has shown that once it's down by 10, chances of a comeback are slim to none. That's damning of an OC, because when it's time to go out there and score points he can't do it. How many games have we seen lost or almost loss due to the ultra-conservative playcalling? How many more plays do we need to see where 3 receivers are all within 5 yards of one another due to design?

I'm sure there's worse, and Shula definitely did not have a lot going for him this season with injuries, but as a coach it's his job to adjust and put the players he does have in a position to succeed. He failed at that.