The possibility still exists....

[Gman was right]

Yep, ill still be at every game. Are you telling me you dont watch when the team is bad?

[PhillyB]

Yep, ill still be at every game. Are you telling me you dont watch when the team is bad?

nope, haven't missed a game in years... it just seems like you're devoid of all hope from the get-go. that's got to be a depressing way to go through life

[Mr. Scot]

A deep playoff run ? Ya I can get behind the staff again.

One and done ? Time to start new.

Can't keep doing the same thing with sub-par results.

Depends on what Big Cat thinks though.

Overcoming the injuries and the horrible start and making it into the playoffs would likely be enough to convince an owner that already likes his head coach that this is a guy who can lead men into battle.

If it finishes with a playoff loss, as long as it's a competitive loss and not an utter disaster like last year's, it very well could still be enough.

[Gman was right]

nope, haven't missed a game in years... it just seems like you're devoid of all hope from the get-go. that's got to be a depressing way to go through life

Sorry, but how I live my life doesnt equate to how I evaluate my favorite football team.

[Mr. Scot]

For the record, my biggest worry with Fox is that he might have reached the "saturation point".

Much as I hate to cite George Seifert, he did say one thing that was fairly smart (no, not "don't be the wildbeest").

Seifert talked about a saturation point for coaches who have been with a program for a long time. Logically speaking, there comes a point where the guys have heard all your speeches, they know all your motivating tactics, they can give your half-time pep-talk almost from memory and they've seen you angry enough times that it no longer shakes them up when you fly off the handle.

Some coaches get past that, but it's not easy.

Can Fox overcome that? Unknown.

[Kurb]

Depends on what Big Cat thinks though.

Overcoming the injuries and the horrible start and making it into the playoffs would likely be enough to convince an owner that already likes his head coach that this is a guy who can lead men into battle.

If it finishes with a playoff loss, as long as it's a competitive loss and not an utter disaster like last year's, it very well could still be enough.

Playoffs would be nice.

I have just reached a point that I disagree with Fox on a football philosophy stand point.

[bleys]

...that the season could be turned around and the Panthers could finish with a winning record, maybe even make the playoffs. That possibility will still exist even if the Panthers lose on Monday night.

And if that happens, it'd be no surprise to see John Fox get a contract extension.

Being brutally honest, that would be a worst-case scenario for the folks who want wholesale changes in the roster and the coaching staff. Hate to tell you guys, but it is still conceivable that things could get turned around.

On a related note, part of me wonders whether or not it might be better for the team to lose - perhaps even in embarrassing fashion - to the Cowboys on Monday. If that happened, they'd have two weeks to sit and stew over that loss. And hey, who knows? Perhaps 0-3 with two embarrassing losses in the rear view mirror would be a sufficient kick in the teeth to get some fire back in these guys' stomachs.

So yeah, I'm okay with losing a game if it makes us better overall.

Losing a season? I can't bring myself to get behind that.

Although 2 weeks stewing over 0-3 would normally be huge motivation... "Remember Arizona" should have had the same effect.

If we keep going in that direction, every few games would have to be a huge blowout to keep us motivated.. and even then, it doesn't seem to be clicking. Even so, I'm can't get behind a philosophy that would require that as motivation.. (not that anyone is implying it would be)

I was only able to catch the last game on the radio, but from what I hear, our defense never gave up. I'm concerned it falls more on scheme and the moving parts that make it up, more so than motivation for our team..

On offense, (although I have seen Davidson pull out different formations and such in the beginning), I'm concerned that we aren't doing the little things/short routes, screens, etc to give our offense momentum.

On defense, I'm extremely concerned that our issues of last year will still be there this year. No pressure on QB = receivers eventually getting open and killing us. DT is the core of all that, IMO...

---------------------------

Edit:

A deep playoff run ? Ya I can get behind the staff again.

One and done ? Time to start new.

Can't keep doing the same thing with sub-par results.

This...

Playoffs would be nice.

I have just reached a point that I disagree with Fox on a football philosophy stand point.

and That...

[Mr. Scot]

Playoffs would be nice.

I have just reached a point that I disagree with Fox on a football philosophy stand point.

I have longstanding points of disagreement with Fox.

The biggest of them would be with positions where he sees role-players as sufficient. Fox believes you can build a winning team with average players at tight end, safety and quarterback. I don't buy that notion. Yes, it can work, but it needs a lot of things to go right. He's also tended to put more of a premium on edge rushing against the pass whereas I prefer interior pressure that pushes the pocket.

I wholeheartedly agree with the need for a dominant offensive line and running game, and I'm comfortable with a "defense first" mindset and an emphasis on solid special teams play.

The sad part is that so far this season, none of those elements on which Fox and I agree have been present.

Fox's philosophy can be a winning one when all things are clicking, but right now that's not happening.

[Pimpdaddy]

Mr. Scot, Always enjoy your posts for insight and mainly because of reason and will continue to do so. I always remain optimistic about Panthers play, thats why we play'em every Sunday, to be sure, we always have a chance. Michael Jordan always said to work on your game regardless of how good you are.

Like the theory of 'saturation point'. The Bucs needed Gruden, the Giants needed Coughlin, Atlanta needed that 'c0ck sucker, to push them over the edged, to be competitive. Tired of this Bon Jovi crap, Live'in on a Prayer. Fox's archaic style will translate to 12-4, 7-9...etc... I've been saying it for the last couple years that we have a Lambrogini for an offense and we drive it about once a month. 'We Need A Change'! We know what to expect this year, mediocrity.... Sorry Smity, no HOF for you. Sorry Pep, now I know why u want to leave... ( U2 Jenkx).

I'll support them Monday fully knowing we are going to disappoint. Seen it before, like Pavlovs f*cking dog....

GO PANTHERS....

[rayzor]

my expectations aren't as high as they were coming into the season but in no way do i think the season is over. pretty foolish to think that after only 2 weeks into the season, but whatever....

i just want the panthers to win this year and every year. i don't really care who it is that does it but i don't want to see us investing more time and money into people who aren't going to help make that happen, esp. at the top.

i'm torn about what i wish for this team this year. will losing put us in better position to win in the future? i don't know. i do think that if we somehow get into the playoffs that a one and done needs to definitely be answered with a change at HC. imo, best case scenario is a superbowl win and fox finally gets it. worst case scenario is not having a winning season and no change in leadership.

i don't have much in the way of expectations this year but i hope that one way or the other the franchise turns around and becomes a dominant team going forward. if fox/hurney can't make that happen, get someone who can.

[Pimpdaddy]

i don't have much in the way of expectations this year but i hope that one way or the other the franchise turns around and becomes a dominant team going forward. if fox/hurney can't make that happen, get someone who can.

We almost have it... we have the player personel in position for the most part...See ya Pep and Delomme....

[magnus]

my expectations aren't as high as they were coming into the season but in now way do i think the season is over. pretty foolish to think that after only 2 weeks into the season, but whatever....

This. All day every day. It's kinda f'in sad that part of the point that Scot puts out on that first post is that a lot of fans will end up upset if we turn it around.

[thejimmy]

Playoffs would be nice.

I have just reached a point that I disagree with Fox on a football philosophy stand point.

As much as I respect Fox, I'm afraid I have to agree. I disagree on too many of his philosophies to stand behind him.

Things I like about Fox.

1. D First

2. Smashmouth O

3. Good talent evaluator

4. Does not call out players at risk of dividing team (though I would often like him too)

5. Likes to build from the draft

Things I dislike about Fox.

1. I LOATHE his D. I don't necessarily hate the Cover 2, but I hate it when a coach tries to run a D when he clearly, obviously doesn't have the players.

2. I hate his QB philosophy. We've never pursued a top notch QB in the draft. I know the flameout rate is high, but I'm not against spending a 2nd, 3rd round pick on a QB and see what happens. All our QBs are undrafted or off the scrap heap.

3. Rarely admits problems on the team, even when obvious.

[jramsey4]

For the record, my biggest worry with Fox is that he might have reached the "saturation point".

Much as I hate to cite George Seifert, he did say one thing that was fairly smart (no, not "don't be the wildbeest").

Seifert talked about a saturation point for coaches who have been with a program for a long time. Logically speaking, there comes a point where the guys have heard all your speeches, they know all your motivating tactics, they can give your half-time pep-talk almost from memory and they've seen you angry enough times that it no longer shakes them up when you fly off the handle.

Some coaches get past that, but it's not easy.

Can Fox overcome that? Unknown.

I think he is quickly showing that he can't overcome that saturation point. The area where Fox is supposed to be the best at coaching, defense, has looked completely lost for almost a whole season. I think it is time for a new coach to bring in a scheme that will get these players excited and motivated.