This needs to be the game that forces Rivera/DG's hand

[Cpt slay a ho]

Idk how you can watch our games this season and think firing Shula is the golden solution.....


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[ickmule]

19 minutes ago, sanjay_rajput said:

He can get better especially with his footwork but the Front office needs to surround him with better talent. 

He's had the same $hitty footwork for 6 years. Seems it's a habit he can't overcome. He's almost become a non threat running and it appears he has lost a step. Once he loses the run threat, and it appears he already has,  he will be less than average. 

[panthers55]

29 minutes ago, ickmule said:

Cam is and has been part of the problem with this team........you just can't tell the nuthuggers that.   I honestly think we have seen the best of Cam. Can it get better ? Possibly, but not until the staff demands better from him and we all know that won't happen with the current staff. 

Cam is still young and learning. Success has come fast for him. He said himself that this year has been humbling. Last year he took winning for granted and played at a high level. This year has been a real eye-opener for him. I expect a more focused and mature Cam and a return to better football as long as he gets a line to protect him. I think of this year as 2004 after we went to the Superbowl in 2003. I also remember 2005 and the deep run in the playoffs.

[Ace_Aladdin]

58 minutes ago, ickmule said:

He's had the same $hitty footwork for 6 years. Seems it's a habit he can't overcome. He's almost become a non threat running and it appears he has lost a step. Once he loses the run threat, and it appears he already has,  he will be less than average. 

haha first of all Cams not gonna lose his running threat until he retires this man is Lebron James of the NFL.  Second Cam's footwork has improved tremendously since he came into the league, it has regressed this year due to poor OL play but the front office made major mistake by surrounding him with bigger targets to cover up his accuracy instead of forcing him to become more accurate passer. 

[CPF4LIFE]

41 minutes ago, sanjay_rajput said:

haha first of all Cams not gonna lose his running threat until he retires this man is Lebron James of the NFL.  Second Cam's footwork has improved tremendously since he came into the league, it has regressed this year due to poor OL play but the front office made major mistake by surrounding him with bigger targets to cover up his accuracy instead of forcing him to become more accurate passer. 

Being big and playing big is 2 different things and that's something we have come to realize about kb and funch this season. 

[panthers1234]

Pretty sure the OL had more to do with our problems than anything else. Everything else was pretty much the same as last year. 

[Mr. Scot]

17 hours ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

Idk how you can watch our games this season and think firing Shula is the golden solution.....

I'm not sure how anyone who's watched the entire season can think keeping him is a great idea.

[thefuzz]

16 hours ago, sanjay_rajput said:

haha first of all Cams not gonna lose his running threat until he retires this man is Lebron James of the NFL.  Second Cam's footwork has improved tremendously since he came into the league, it has regressed this year due to poor OL play but the front office made major mistake by surrounding him with bigger targets to cover up his accuracy instead of forcing him to become more accurate passer. 

What does that mean?

[Ace_Aladdin]

52 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

What does that mean?

He is a freak of specimen whose body and atheletic ability are of another world 

[top dawg]

I am going to say it again and again:

The problems on this team begin with Gettleman and flow down through Rivera and Cam. Each one has issues they need to address and improve. 

For Rivera's part, I've said it for years, his greatest weakness is his reluctance to replace coaches (and perhaps to a lesser extent, the players on game day) that bring him and the team down, when evidence---the bottom line which is failure to produce on a consistent basis, and at critical times during the games---demands a change. I've said many times over his time here that Shula is going to get him fired if he doesn't wake up. 

All that said, unlike some, including @thomas96 apparently, I don't believe for one minute that the offensive personnel is good enough to provide consistent, high quality production that is befitting of an NFL franchise that wants to stay competitive year in and year out, much like the top three or four franchises in this league that don't fall off of a cliff, even in their down years. And that problem falls squarely on Gettleman (no excuses). 

As for Cam, you can try and place most of the blame on Dorsey or Shula all you want, but Cam is a seasoned veteran who should be a "coach" on the field at this point in his career. Some things should be innate at this point, like good mechanics, going through your reads and progressions so that you can consistently find the open man, refusing to throw into double and triple coverage, knowing when to throw the ball out or even take a sack if necessary, and just making good decisions in general. Cam's coaches should be helping him on developing specific strategy that is unique to specific defenses in my opinion, not harping on or begging him to do the basics at this point in his career. Cam is going to have to take a long, hard look at himself, and do what other consistently successful quarterbacks do in this league to get to and stay on top of his game. He's not doing his best, any more than Rivera or Gettleman are doing their best, and, just like them, he's going to have to change some things if the team is going to be consistently successful.

[beastson]

19 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I am going to say it again and again:

The problems on this team begin with Gettleman and flow down through Rivera and Cam. Each one has issues they need to address and improve. 

For Rivera's part, I've said it for years, his greatest weakness is his reluctance to replace coaches (and perhaps to a lesser extent, the players on game day) that bring him and the team down, when evidence---the bottom line which is failure to produce on a consistent basis, and at critical times during the games---demands a change. I've said many times over his time here that Shula is going to get him fired if he doesn't wake up. 

All that said, unlike some, including @thomas96 apparently, I don't believe for one minute that the offensive personnel is good enough to provide consistent, high quality production that is befitting of an NFL franchise that wants to stay competitive year in and year out, much like the top three or four franchises in this league that don't fall off of a cliff, even in their down years. And that problem falls squarely on Gettleman (no excuses). 

As for Cam, you can try and place most of the blame on Dorsey or Shula all you want, but Cam is a seasoned veteran who should be a "coach" on the field at this point in his career. Some things should be innate at this point, like good mechanics, going through your reads and progressions so that you can consistently find the open man, refusing to throw into double and triple coverage, knowing when to throw the ball out or even take a sack if necessary, and just making good decisions in general. Cam's coaches should be helping him on developing specific strategy that is unique to specific defenses in my opinion, not harping on or begging him to do the basics at this point in his career. Cam is going to have to take a long, hard look at himself, and do what other consistently successful quarterbacks do in this league to get to and stay on top of his game. He's not doing his best, any more than Rivera or Gettleman are doing their best, and, just like them, he's going to have to change some things if the team is going to be consistently successful.

I agree with everything, except the last paragraph

Why? While most teams accepted who their QB is from college, they built around their QB strengths not just in the run game(which yes we did the read-option), but passing game too. The Panthers took Cam and tried to turn him into a prototypical QB, going through 1st read, 2nd read and all that type of stuff. Which was cool and Cam proved he can do that, but that's not his specialty, that's not what he did at college. Cam likes his offense at a faster pace (while Ron wants his offense slowed down cause scoring too quickly hurts the defense, lets not blame Shula here, lets place the blame where its supposed to go here) where he can scan defenses and make the reads based off what he sees and his 1st option goes from there. KB went down and we had a bunch of new options for Cam, so we had to do it his way. Now that KB is back and we got a lil more experience with Funchess and Ginn together, its back to certain plays this player is 1st read style of offense and its not working, 1 main reason is because well... your 3rd paragraph. Lets call a spade a spade. We don't have a OBJ, Julio, Antonio as our number 1 and Funchess is looking more like he can be a dominant TE opposed to a dominant WR. Also our style of offense depends on too much which is why a change is needed. It depends on a oline that can hold up for at-least 4 sec consistently and it needs speed and players who can separate on those longer routes. We're in a NFL that constantly changes and adapts and the Panthers just love being content. I watch other football games all the time, I see the huge difference between us and the rest of the league. The offense needs a changing and just upgrading the oline isn't going to cut it. Thats just 1 problem

[t96]

59 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I am going to say it again and again:

The problems on this team begin with Gettleman and flow down through Rivera and Cam. Each one has issues they need to address and improve. 

For Rivera's part, I've said it for years, his greatest weakness is his reluctance to replace coaches (and perhaps to a lesser extent, the players on game day) that bring him and the team down, when evidence---the bottom line which is failure to produce on a consistent basis, and at critical times during the games---demands a change. I've said many times over his time here that Shula is going to get him fired if he doesn't wake up. 

All that said, unlike some, including @thomas96 apparently, I don't believe for one minute that the offensive personnel is good enough to provide consistent, high quality production that is befitting of an NFL franchise that wants to stay competitive year in and year out, much like the top three or four franchises in this league that don't fall off of a cliff, even in their down years. And that problem falls squarely on Gettleman (no excuses). 

As for Cam, you can try and place most of the blame on Dorsey or Shula all you want, but Cam is a seasoned veteran who should be a "coach" on the field at this point in his career. Some things should be innate at this point, like good mechanics, going through your reads and progressions so that you can consistently find the open man, refusing to throw into double and triple coverage, knowing when to throw the ball out or even take a sack if necessary, and just making good decisions in general. Cam's coaches should be helping him on developing specific strategy that is unique to specific defenses in my opinion, not harping on or begging him to do the basics at this point in his career. Cam is going to have to take a long, hard look at himself, and do what other consistently successful quarterbacks do in this league to get to and stay on top of his game. He's not doing his best, any more than Rivera or Gettleman are doing their best, and, just like them, he's going to have to change some things if the team is going to be consistently successful.

I can't say I agree with this. The personnel on offense was good enough last year to be the #1 offense. Defenses figured it out and that's on the coaches to adjust, not DG. Does the personnel still need improvement? Absolutely. But it is good enough right now for competent coaching to build a run game that can sustain itself and not rely on Cam.

 

Regarding Cam, I agree to some extent. I'm not somebody who is irrational in defense of Cam. But for a player who, in his entire career, has been using his physical talents to carry his offensive coaching staffs and make them look good without any real coaching from them, I think he would benefit greatly from actual coaches who can guide him in the right direction.

[top dawg]

44 minutes ago, thomas96 said:

I can't say I agree with this. The personnel on offense was good enough last year to be the #1 offense. Defenses figured it out and that's on the coaches to adjust, not DG. Does the personnel still need improvement? Absolutely. But it is good enough right now for competent coaching to build a run game that can sustain itself and not rely on Cam.

 

Regarding Cam, I agree to some extent. I'm not somebody who is irrational in defense of Cam. But for a player who, in his entire career, has been using his physical talents to carry his offensive coaching staffs and make them look good without any real coaching from them, I think he would benefit greatly from actual coaches who can guide him in the right direction.

I see your point somewhat on Gettleman, but seemingly inherent in your opinion is that it was OK for Getty to rest on his laurels and gamble that the offensive personnel would basically play at a surprisingly high level again, even though it is pretty much a given that other organizations are going to do everything in their power to figure you out, catch up to, and surpass you on a seasonal basis. Moreover, before last season began, most every NFL type---from execs, analysts and hardened fans---thought that we had glaring deficiencies on offense at receiver and especially on the O-line. Sure, we did wonderful things, but it was somewhat unbelievable given the personnel if we're truthful about it. And the thing is, the weaknesses that everyone suspected we had showed up like a case of the shingles when it mattered most. Gettleman had every reason to heed the warning signs, but failed to do so, and essentially dug in (especially when you look at his inaction to address even a hint of concern on the offensive side of the ball). 

Don't get me wrong, you know I was against the Shula pick from the beginning, and I may have been the first one to suggest that he needs to go (about the third to fifth game of his tenure with a thread), but @Jeremy Igo said that even Shula wanted better personnel because of worrying about teams catching up to what had made us surprisingly successful on offense last season. Gettleman not only didn't address offensive question marks, but he added more question marks on defense (which indirectly affected the offense). And I haven't even discussed the lack of chemistry due to veteran leadership in the receiving corps. Everyone but Ginn is still basically young and green (even considering on-stage college experience)  and he's not who I want acting as the leader on the field because he leaves way too much meat on the bone because of drops. So, no, Gettleman doesn't get a pass. I see him as the most guilty for the team's failure this season.

[top dawg]

You know, something that has always bothered me about Gettleman is when he said Ginn's hands were "good enough." I could argue that this is his stance on offense in general, and I take issue with that.