Thomas Davis

[Cj72]

23 hours ago, csx said:

If Short would have matched TDS intensity it would have been nice. I think TD and Luke have a fetish for this part of the game. 

I think you are correct. Notice how fired up luke was when he was playing special teams not long ago and blowing people up down the field

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, thefuzz said:

0% chance huh?

 

Hahaha.  Man you throw around the "taking things to the extreme" poo when debating with other posters on here...but as always it's you who takes things to the extreme.

 

Nah that is just my opinion based on how I see he seems to treat players without much loyalty or consideration. My views are my own and typically well considered taking in both sides. I hsve largely defended Gettleman and up until this offseason gave him high marks for the most part. But I also call it the other way when I see it that way. 

[Jase]

Davis has all of the passion that smitty had, only without the general dickholishness.

[thefuzz]

4 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Nah that is just my opinion based on how I see he seems to treat players without much loyalty or consideration. My views are my own and typically well considered taking in both sides. I hsve largely defended Gettleman and up until this offseason gave him high marks for the most part. But I also call it the other way when I see it that way. 

We have talked about this before.....

 

But how does extending Cam, Kalil, Davis, Olsen, Oher, Luke, Kurt, etc....not show Loyalty.

 

He didn't show loyalty to Steve Smith.  Possibly Gross, but there is only rumor, and pulled the tag on Norman when he wouldn't consider signing a mutually friendly deal (not that I blame him).....

Proven over and over again, you work hard, keep your head down, and he will pay you.  He may not pay you top of your position money....but he did with Luke.

I just don't see what everyone else sees.  However I do agree with you that this offseason  wasn't his best.

 

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, thefuzz said:

We have talked about this before.....

 

But how does extending Cam, Kalil, Davis, Olsen, Oher, Luke, Kurt, etc....not show Loyalty.

 

He didn't show loyalty to Steve Smith.  Possibly Gross, but there is only rumor, and pulled the tag on Norman when he wouldn't consider signing a mutually friendly deal (not that I blame him).....

Proven over and over again, you work hard, keep your head down, and he will pay you.  He may not pay you top of your position money....but he did with Luke.

I just don't see what everyone else sees.  However I do agree with you that this offseason  wasn't his best.

 

The issues with Gross weren't rumored they were the reason he retired when he did. As for signing Luke, Cam etcetera, that was not loyalty, look at the deals. That was getting players who were loyal to the team at good to discount prices. I don't know where he showed any.loyalty.  He waited until he had to sign them and only signed those folks who he either couldn't replace or not for as cheap. Good business for sure but not loyalty. 

He has shown he can build a winning team and can evaluate talent. Now he has to show he can sustain it and retain the players he worked hard to draft and develop.

[panthers55]

41 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Holy cow man, do you actually know anything or just guess all the time? You told me before that I wasn't a coach so I couldn't have an opinion on whether or not the coaches played the right guys, but when it comes to your opinion on Gettleman you assume he did all these things and you say to ignore what Rivera says.

Seriously amazes me how people can say one thing and when it is something that doesn't work with their opinion, they say the complete opposite.

Why the hell would the GM get rid of the only starting caliber CB on the team with experience (McClain has been a career backup) who is playing on a 5th round rookie deal? If you can come up with any reason why the GM would ever make that move if the coaches thought he was still good, please let us know. The only reason to get rid of Bene is because the coaches want to give another player a chance because Bene wasn't helping the team and isn't worth keeping on the 53. Oh, that is what Rivera actually said.

No one is ignoring what Rivera says. As a coach in the league he tends to be more straight forward than many. Imagine getting a straight answer if it was Belichick or many other guys. Rivera is a straight shooter for the most part and loyal to a fault. For his players and the Panthers. He is a company man. 

I think that when it is a coaching decision it is Rivera because Gettleman doesn't know anything about it. But Dave prides himself on player personnel and roster moves. He has the ultimate say. So would Rivera's thoughts be considered as the coach of the player and Bene's ability to perform in games? Absolutely. But the determination to release him or use IR  or some other way to replace him on the roster would be Gettleman's. I am sure Rivera told him Bene wasn't 100% and might not get there this year. That was obvious to the casual observer. That wasn't news and Dave saw it clearly. I posted he has no acceleration or closing speed.  Didn't we all see it?. But whether to IR or release him was likely Gettleman given he is in charge of roster moves and acquiring other players. If that isn't what I said, that is what I meant. 

[thefuzz]

15 hours ago, panthers55 said:

The issues with Gross weren't rumored they were the reason he retired when he did. As for signing Luke, Cam etcetera, that was not loyalty, look at the deals. That was getting players who were loyal to the team at good to discount prices. I don't know where he showed any.loyalty.  He waited until he had to sign them and only signed those folks who he either couldn't replace or not for as cheap. Good business for sure but not loyalty. 

He has shown he can build a winning team and can evaluate talent. Now he has to show he can sustain it and retain the players he worked hard to draft and develop.

"They were rumored to be one of the reasons Gross retired when he did"  That is the correct sentence.

Luke's deal makes him the highest paid inside ILB'er in the league...that's because he is the best ILB in the league.

Cam's deal I think places him around the 5th highest paid QB in the league....last year that was a deal, this year it looks to be closer to the correct value.  Cam is neither under or over paid....from the eye test.

 

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

"They were rumored to be one of the reasons Gross retired when he did"  That is the correct sentence.

Luke's deal makes him the highest paid inside ILB'er in the league...that's because he is the best ILB in the league.

Cam's deal I think places him around the 5th highest paid QB in the league....last year that was a deal, this year it looks to be closer to the correct value.  Cam is neither under or over paid....from the eye test.

 

Cam Newton is underpaid.  From the eye test.  Carolina has gotten the better end of the deal every season he has been here. 

Cam is a cheat code in roster building an offense.  That is why he is underpaid. 

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

Cam Newton is underpaid.  From the eye test.  Carolina has gotten the better end of the deal every season he has been here. 

Cam is a cheat code in roster building an offense.  That is why he is underpaid.

When GM's make players offers, I don't think they do so with Madden type phrases.

Cam's greatness was on display last season....after he signed his deal.  This season...it's all fallen apart.  Not all Cam's fault, but he simply isn't playing like a top 5 QB right now.

We shall see next season if he jumps back up there again.

[panthers55]

3 hours ago, stbugs said:

I think you are letting you bias against Gettleman get in the way. I think Rivera and Gettleman work together on these decisions and I think Rivera (and his assistants) decided they had seen enough of Bene to know they wanted to let the other CBs have a chance. That's what Rivera said. I don't think Dave releases or IRs Bene without Ron's input and again Dave's got no incentive to dump a cheap player unless the coaches are done with that player. Bene better work hard if he wants to play again since Miami dumped him and no one else picked him up.

I agree that Rivera had input and said so in my post. I don't think you understand their roles. Rivera told Gettleman that Bene couldn't do the job so obviously Gettleman had to either promote someone or replace him or IR him. He chose to waive him and not pick him up or IR him. That is a GM decision since managing the cap and dealing with personnel is primary a GM decision. Would Gettleman put him on IR if Rivera had lobbied for it. Probably. Since they really don't talk about their relationship specifically but only in generalities and say they work together anything more specific is conjecture and depends on how you view Rivera and Gettleman personalities. Of the 2 I think Gettleman is a lot more forceful so I think he is the primary decision maker. I am not biased against Gettleman, I have supported him since he got here. This offseason I have criticized him and for the large part was correct. 

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, thefuzz said:

"They were rumored to be one of the reasons Gross retired when he did"  That is the correct sentence.

Luke's deal makes him the highest paid inside ILB'er in the league...that's because he is the best ILB in the league.

Cam's deal I think places him around the 5th highest paid QB in the league....last year that was a deal, this year it looks to be closer to the correct value.  Cam is neither under or over paid....from the eye test.

 

That is your opinion which you are surely entitled to. But everyone else thinks that Cam is underpaid and Gross retired because he wasn't going to take the paycut he was offered and didn't need the money so he retired. You can call it a rumor, but anyone who knows anything about that situation knows it is true.

The only contract that isn't a deal maybe be Kuechly if the concussions keep him off the field or he has to retire early. Otherwise it a deal as well if he bounces back and can stay healthy.

[TheRed]

Not sure I would say Newton is "underpaid" per se, but for what he brings to the offense overall, we are getting an absolute bargain considering he is making just a hair above Matt Ryan's contract.

Which makes it even more mind boggling that we didn't go all in on our OL knowing that he got absolutely hosed in the Super Bowl behind a clearly over matched line, and again in the opener. Unforgivable on the part of our FO.

[The Question]

Mills coined the Keep Pounding phrase, but Davis is the living embodiment of it. 

He probably won't get a statue out front but his name better be in the ring of honor when he hangs it up. 

I honestly think it's very possible he gets a statue


Sent from my iPhone using CarolinaHuddle

[thefuzz]

21 hours ago, panthers55 said:

That is your opinion which you are surely entitled to. But everyone else thinks that Cam is underpaid and Gross retired because he wasn't going to take the paycut he was offered and didn't need the money so he retired. You can call it a rumor, but anyone who knows anything about that situation knows it is true.

The only contract that isn't a deal maybe be Kuechly if the concussions keep him off the field or he has to retire early. Otherwise it a deal as well if he bounces back and can stay healthy.

I remember enough about the situation to acknowledge that Gross had already talked about retiring at the time.  If you can find me proof that Gross left because of DG I'm all in with you.  IIRC he stated that he didn't like DG at first, but I'm not convinced that's why he pulled the plug.  Maybe it was 1 of the reasons, but I don't think that was the only one.

As to the Cam underpaid thing....I just don't see it....and Luke certainly isn't underpaid by any stretch of the imagination.  

Did some of you want Cam to get the Luck contract?  I certainly didn't.