Terrell McClain

[electro's horse]

marinelli is a wizard

[TN05]

Didn't Everette Brown have a few good games with them too?

[imminent rogaine]

Mackenzy Bernadeau?

[Paa Langfart]

Its all fun and games till someone makes him pee in a cup.

[Ivan The Awesome]

12 hours ago, CPantherKing said:

McClain was better than Butler as a rookie.

Panthers should have kept him. He would have been at the very least great depth.

You should let Gettleman borrow that crystal ball of yours that tells the future.

[CatMan72]

12 hours ago, Daddy_Uncle said:

still think fua was an all pro caliber offensive guard 

Too bad he wasn't left handed. 

[Mage]

Rod Marinelli makes everyone look better than they are, especially on the DL. He's the most underrated DC in the NFL; his defenses are always way better than their talent.

[CPantherKing]

2 hours ago, stbugs said:

That's the best part. McClain was let go by Hurney. CPK made another mistake. He played for NE and Houston in 2012, the year before Gettleman got hired. As CPK said, he played so much better than Butler that his buddy Hurney let him go after 1 year.

I know Hurney was in charge in 2012. I have never said Hurney is not flawed. Here you go hijacking another thread to make it about Hurney bashing. Try to distract from Gettleman much?

Now, you refuse to admit the many flaws of Gettleman. Like Paul Soliai, or Gettleman's inability to bring in at least one player in the first round per draft who is not a liability, and actually improved the player he replaced. The 1st round is easy. Why does Gettleman keep coming up short at replacing the talent he releases with that 1st round pick? Star was an upgrade. KB was a downgrade. Shaq was a downgrade. Butler was a downgrade. Seems like Gettleman continues to struggle with his first round picks. I hope he does not downgrade another position with the next 1st round pick.

Meanwhile, every Hurney 1st round pick addressed a need and was an instant upgrade/impact. Peppers, Gross,  Gamble, Davis, Williams, Beason, Stewart, Otah, Newton and Kuechy. I keep hearing how easy it is to pick players in the 1st round.

Why is it so difficult for Gettleman?

It was so easy for Hurney that he brought the Panthers franchise players with every single one of his 1st round picks. All pros and pro bowlers are easy pickings in the 1st round, right? How many pro bowl seasons did Hurney 1st rounders produce? 24 and counting. How many all pro seasons did Hurney 1st rounders produce? 10.

We all know Gettleman has given the Panthers a 0 in both areas when it comes to first round picks. How is that possible when they are so easy? Hurney was allowed 1st round picks by ownership in 9 seasons, and produced in the easiest round to find talent. Gettleman is passing the half way point to 9 and he has yet to produce a top talent from the 1st round. How long do we have to wait for the Panthers to get a pro bowl or all pro 1st round pick from Gettleman? 10 years?

The 1st round is easy, right? Just not for Gettleman.

Now, you can defend your favorite GM who has yet to produce anything greater than his predecessor, but is touted as though he is doing the greatest of any GM the Panthers have had in their history. The only argument you have going in your favor is the wait and see approach because Gettleman needs more time to show he can produce better than Hurney. When the clock runs out I hope you can be honest with the lack of production Gettleman has had with the Panthers. Then again I am sure a group of you will still blame Hurney for the hardships the Panthers face under Gettleman in the 2020s.

Let me know when Gettleman drafts well enough that the players he releases are still performing among the best in the NFL like Gary Barnidge, Evan Mathis and Terrell McClain.

[KSpan]

11 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

I know Hurney was in charge in 2012. I have never said Hurney is not flawed. Here you go hijacking another thread to make it about Hurney bashing. Try to distract from Gettleman much?

Now, you refuse to admit the many flaws of Gettleman. Like Paul Soliai, or Gettleman's inability to bring in at least one player in the first round per draft who is not a liability, and actually improved the player he replaced. The 1st round is easy. Why does Gettleman keep coming up short at replacing the talent he releases with that 1st round pick? Star was an upgrade. KB was a downgrade. Shaq was a downgrade. Butler was a downgrade. Seems like Gettleman continues to struggle with his first round picks. I hope he does not downgrade another position with the next 1st round pick.

Meanwhile, every Hurney 1st round pick addressed a need and was an instant upgrade/impact. Peppers, Gross,  Gamble, Davis, Williams, Beason, Stewart, Otah, Newton and Kuechy. I keep hearing how easy it is to pick players in the 1st round.

Why is it so difficult for Gettleman?

It was so easy for Hurney that he brought the Panthers franchise players with every single one of his 1st round picks. All pros and pro bowlers are easy pickings in the 1st round, right? How many pro bowl seasons did Hurney 1st rounders produce? 24 and counting. How many all pro seasons did Hurney 1st rounders produce? 10.

We all know Gettleman has given the Panthers a 0 in both areas when it comes to first round picks. How is that possible when they are so easy? Hurney was allowed 1st round picks by ownership in 9 seasons, and produced in the easiest round to find talent. Gettleman is passing the half way point to 9 and he has yet to produce a top talent from the 1st round. How long do we have to wait for the Panthers to get a pro bowl or all pro 1st round pick from Gettleman? 10 years?

The 1st round is easy, right? Just not for Gettleman.

Now, you can defend your favorite GM who has yet to produce anything greater than his predecessor, but is touted as though he is doing the greatest of any GM the Panthers have had in their history. The only argument you have going in your favor is the wait and see approach because Gettleman needs more time to show he can produce better than Hurney. When the clock runs out I hope you can be honest with the lack of production Gettleman has had with the Panthers. Then again I am sure a group of you will still blame Hurney for the hardships the Panthers face under Gettleman in the 2020s.

Let me know when Gettleman drafts well enough that the players he releases are still performing among the best in the NFL like Gary Barnidge, Evan Mathis and Terrell McClain.

Exactly 4 of those players were selected later than the 16th pick of the draft - Otah, Williams, Beason, and Gamble. Otah had one good season, Williams didn't contribute until his third year and exactly 2 of his 9 Carolina seasons had more than 1000 yards (only 4 had more than 800), and I'll agree that Beason and Gamble were excellent picks. That means that of the picks taken in the area where Gettleman has had 3 of his 4 picks (and Star was only Pick 14 - 6 of Hurney's picks were at this spot or earlier and 4 were Top 10, 2 of those Top 2), Hurney only had 1 more "immediate impact" player than Gettleman and I'd argue that they're the same since Kelvin and Star both had major impacts their rookie years. Otah is a bit of a specail case as well becuase of the trading involved - the cost was more than just a single pick.

As far as "drafting well enough to have players performing among the best in the NFL", that's an impossible statement because the guy has been drafting for 4 years. Each of those players that you named were marginal or worse for at least the first 4 years of their career, and I'd hardly call Barnidge or McClain "among the best in the NFL". You're really reaching here.

 

[KSpan]

8 minutes ago, Hammerin'Cameron1 said:

It seems like Dallas always has one of our outcasts starting at DT for them .. Hayden, now McClain

They had George Selvie and Everette Brown as well, with all 4 of them on the roster at the same time in 2014.

[Cary Kollins]

1 hour ago, CPantherKing said:

 

Let me know when Gettleman drafts well enough that the players he releases are still performing among the best in the NFL like Gary Barnidge, Evan Mathis and Terrell McClain.

 

#draftorder 

[CPantherKing]

1 hour ago, KSpan said:

Exactly 4 of those players were selected later than the 16th pick of the draft - Otah, Williams, Beason, and Gamble. Otah had one good season, Williams didn't contribute until his third year and exactly 2 of his 9 Carolina seasons had more than 1000 yards (only 4 had more than 800), and I'll agree that Beason and Gamble were excellent picks. That means that of the picks taken in the area where Gettleman has had 3 of his 4 picks (and Star was only Pick 14 - 6 of Hurney's picks were at this spot or earlier and 4 were Top 10, 2 of those Top 2), Hurney only had 1 more "immediate impact" player than Gettleman and I'd argue that they're the same since Kelvin and Star both had major impacts their rookie years. Otah is a bit of a specail case as well becuase of the trading involved - the cost was more than just a single pick.

As far as "drafting well enough to have players performing among the best in the NFL", that's an impossible statement because the guy has been drafting for 4 years. Each of those players that you named were marginal or worse for at least the first 4 years of their career, and I'd hardly call Barnidge or McClain "among the best in the NFL". You're really reaching here.

 

Of course you would eliminate Davis and Stewart while including Star in your argument. You have to in order to create and thread to keep Gettleman on par with Hurney.

You can look at Davis, Stewart, Williams, Otah, Beason and Gamble versus Star, KB, Shaq and Butler...

or

,,, you can look at KB, Shaq and Butler versus Williams, Beason, Gamble.

You can not toss in a top 19 pick to prop up your argument.

The argument I was making is that if it is so easy to pick in the 1st round, then why has Gettleman had trouble? You propose that it is not 1st round picks that are easy. It is just the top 19 picks that are easy. This would pull apart the argument for people critical of Hurney, because it means they have to credit him with success for Beason, Gamble, and Williams.

Let's go with your argument and leave out Star as padding since he is an easy pick who has yet to produce at a pro bowl or all pro level. In fact, Star is the only top 19 pick without an injury problem to end his career that has not been able to make a pro bowl. Star is on par with Jason Peter when he was healthy.

You label KB as an impact player. Impact players make a big enough impact at some point in their career to impress coaches, fans, and peers well enough to make it to a pro bowl at some point in their career. Impact does not mean downgraded position that is among the worst units in the NFL. Where was KB to push the Panthers to a winning season in 2014 or 2016? Where was KB in the playoffs against the Seahawks? Why does KB have trouble catching the ball and replacing Cotchery nevermind Steve Smith. We are still waiting KB to at least equal the impact an old Steve Smith had for the Panthers. KB is not an impact player yet for the Panthers no matter how you spin it. He was a downgrade and the WR position is still a downgrade across the board from the 2013 season.

Then you diminish the impact Williams had in his first for the Panthers over his first 3 seasons. Next you throw in Star without throwing in Davis and Stewart to skew your argument. Let's clean that up and still minimize the scope to attempt a favorable argument for Gettleman.

So, only the picks from 25 to 30 will count - that should be a tight enough window at a favorable attempt for Gettleman that is not considered an easy pick. KB, Shaq, and Butler versus Williams, Beason, and Gamble.

We agree Beason > Shaq and Gamble > Butler.

So, is KB > Williams? In KB first 3 seasons, he was an average starting WR and an average starting WR that is still a downgrade to his predecessor in his 3rd season. In Williams first 3 years, he was a back up to Deshaun Foster and a considerable upgrade over Deshaun Foster in his 3rd season. The clear result is that in their first 3 seasons Williams > KB. Maybe KB can pull even with Williams next year with a 1500+ yard 100+ reception season scoring 15+ TDs and going to the Pro Bowl. It is unlikely, but you can always hope.

So, Gettleman continues to trail Hurney in this little window created in an attempt to favor Gettleman. Gettleman's entire GM tenure to this point has all been based on hope for better production than the Hurney era. Still hoping and waiting for better production.

We also must consider that these picks gave Hurney 4 pro bowls and 1 all pro season. Gettleman's 3 picks have given the Panthers 0 pro bowls or all pro seasons, but we can always hope with time that this changes. I don't think anyone sees KB, Shaq, or Butler getting to that level any time soon, and some may say never in their careers.

You pulled out the Gettleman has not had enough time argument. Well how much time is enough time? Do we need 10 years of failing to produce impact players that can attain a pro bowl or all pro level? What is your cut off for this weak argument of Gettleman needs more time? Please, I would like to know so I know how long to expect this Gettleman nonsense to continue without any solid foundation under it.

Well, he has an EASY pick coming up in this next draft. I am sure there is no way Gettleman can screw an EASY pick up and have another 1st rounder who is not even in the pro bowl/all pro conversation. This pick is going to be an instant success like Peppers, Gross, Cam, and Kuechly - the only top 10 picks in Panthers history who have not failed to make an impact on the league. There is no way Gettleman would produce a top 10 pick like Kerry Collins or Tim Biakabatuka to make the Panthers future even worse. A top 10 pick is EASY according to everyone who criticizes Hurney to favor Gettleman.

Don't screw it up again Dave!

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

barnidge is 15th in receiving yards and tied for 37th in TDs among tight ends.  in what universe is that production "among the best in the NFL".  granted it's the browns and their QB situation is buttcheeks but that didn't seem to matter last year.  2015 might prove to be an outlier for him regardless.

barnidge, mathis, and mcclain were all extremely late bloomers who did absolutely nothing the first several years they were in the NFL.  i guess we'll see if gettleman is as good of a talent evaluator as hurney if beau sandland or tyler gaffney turn into pro bowlers some day.  maybe edmund kugbila will get healthy and become a road grading guard for some team (probably not).

[CRA]

15 hours ago, WarHeel said:

Sent from my iPhone using CarolinaHuddle

I don't know about the other comparison but Sherrod Martin was better than Tre Boston.  Boston sucks....and yes, Martin was horrible