Pundits "Stabbed in the back"

[panthers55]

1 minute ago, Arroz con Panther said:

I don't disagree; it definitely could have been handled better...from both sides though.  I don't think it's all on Gettleman.  I can't think of any other cases right now, but the two that most people reference involve people who are known to be big-headed.  Again, not saying we handled it well, but these are two cuts out of many that have been made in the last few years.

The problem hasn't even been that he screwed up letting probowl players like Smith and Norman go, it is failing to replace them with quality veterans to keep our continuity and talent intact. People keep saying Josh Norman wouldn't have made the difference ignoring we lost Josh, Tillman and Harper and moved Coleman to a different position.  It seems anyone with half a brain wouldn't just sit pat and expect rookies to play like all-pros. I can appreciate Gettleman's ability as a talent evaluator but I really question his understanding of what makes a team click, chemistry and building a consistent unit. He seems to swap players like people do in Madden with little understanding of the consequences.

[WarHeel]

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[CPantherKing]

37 minutes ago, Arroz con Panther said:

Josh fugged up by hiring that agent.  We don't know what was said between the agent and Gettleman, but I imagine it wasn't pretty if it made Gettleman rescind the tag.  There's a reason Josh hired another agent immediately following us cutting him. 

It's the agents fault the GM puffed out his ego, became impatient and quit on negotiations of a franchise tender.

Let's be honest and realize Gettlwman is terrible at negotiations and he is a novice when it comes to dealing with/using the franchise tag. It never goes well when he uses the franchise tag. There is a reason GMs refrain from using the tag unless they really do not want the player to leave.

Gettleman has had to use the tag because he struggles to successfully get a deal done the previous year. You can not keep trying to nickel and dime players and expect it to work. He will always lose more than win at the negotiating table.

What makes it even more puzzling is that Gettleman is quick to over pay players that are a non factor and sit the bench most of the season.

 

 

[KSpan]

8 minutes ago, CRA said:

yeah, players routinely take a long time to sign a tag when they want a deal to get done...

people keep digging their heels into that as a Gettlemen defense.  It simply in no way justifies yanking the tag away from an All Pro that wants to be here, is liked, and isn't an issue in the locker room or off the field.

there are plenty of arguments for NOT giving Norman a deal.  There just aren't good argument for not tagging him in 2016 or yanking the tag away.

Comes back to good-faith negotiating, and we could speculate to reach any conclusion that Norman or Gettleman were solely in the wrong. Again though, we have no idea what was or was not said during the negotiations. It's not stabbing in the back if an action is taken that someone is forewarned about, and other than this he-said she-said stuff there's no proof.

I'm also not really arguing about having him here in 2016 on the tag - sure would be nice. What's done is done though and the fact that we don't like/agree with it doesn't inherently mean that it was a shady move.

[Malt Liquor]

DG fugged up big time. We'll see if he can regain his credibility as a decent GM this offseason.

[CRA]

2 minutes ago, KSpan said:

Comes back to good-faith negotiating, and we could speculate to reach any conclusion that Norman or Gettleman were solely in the wrong. Again though, we have no idea what was or was not said during the negotiations. It's not stabbing in the back if an action is taken that someone is forewarned about, and other than this he-said she-said stuff there's no proof.

I'm also not really arguing about having him here in 2016 on the tag - sure would be nice. What's done is done though and the fact that we don't like/agree with it doesn't inherently mean that it was a shady move.

I don't think it was shady.  I think Gettlemen has showed since he has been here he lacks some aspects when it comes to working with players/contracts/releases/etc.  

Started early on with Gross and there is something with Gettlemen that consistently pops up again and again. 

It think Dave yanking the tag was more ego/foolishness.....than a true back stabbing.  But if you are Norman, when that tag is yanked you can't help but see it that way.  

[KSpan]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

I don't think it was shady.  I think Gettlemen has showed since he has been here he lacks some aspects when it comes to working with players/contracts/releases/etc.  

Started early on with Gross and there is something with Gettlemen that consistently pops up again and again. 

It think Dave yanking the tag was more ego/foolishness.....than a true back stabbing.  But if you are Norman, when that tag is yanked you can't help but see it that way.  

Fair enough. I personally think that part of the perception of Gettleman following the 2013 season had to do with the players being so used to Hurney and the prior FO regime, a recency bias of sorts. Won't disagree at all that Gettleman's an old-school type of negotiator and that some players and agents may not like that. If he truly does rub them the wrong way, it would behoove him to better walk the line of diplomacy.

[Arroz con Panther]

2 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

It's the avents fault the GM puffed out his ego, became impatient and quit on negotiations of a franchise tender.

Let's be honest and realize Gettlwman is terrible at negotiations and he is a novice when it comes to dealing with/using the franchise tag. It never goes well when he uses the franchise tag. There is a reason GMs refrain from using the tag unless they really do not want the player to leave.

Gettleman has had to use the tag because he struggles to successfully get a deal done the previous year. You can not keep trying to nickel and dime players and expect it to work. He will always lose more than win at the negotiating table.

What makes it even more puzzling is that Gettleman is quick to over pay players that are a non factor and ait the bench most of the season.

 

 

It could be the agents fault.  That's the thing, isn't it?  There are two people who actually know what happened: the agent and Gettleman.  I don't know who's fault it was...I just don't think it's fair to say it was Gettlemans.  It certainly could have been.  Again, I don't agree with how it went down, but I do know we offered Josh 11 million per year and he turned it down.  That's good money...I wouldn't call it nickle and diming for a corner back that had one great year.

Also, I wouldn't say that he's bad at negotiating.  He's gotten us some pretty good deals with some key players.  Not every team is going to have success signing all of their star players.  

Yea, it sucks that Josh isn't here.  I like Josh and even had the chance to meet him.  He's a genuinely good guy.  I wish he was playing here instead of in D.C. but what's done is done.  Gettleman's not the first GM to have a story like this and he won't be the last.  I'm just tired of the same re-hashed conversation.

 

 

[CRA]

6 minutes ago, Promethean Forerunner said:

Sign the tag. 

That's all he had to do. He played chicken instead. You keep saying we're defending Gettleman but from what? Doing his job? If Josh wanted to be here, he'd still be here.  It's not quantum physics. I knew he was gone the moment he whispered to Igo that he would hold out if he didn't get what he wanted, demanded QB on live TV and skipped his first team meeting/activity. If you didn't, then that's on your delusional, gullible ass.

His true colors were on display when he bitched about not getting the same attention that Cam and Luke got. Josh is an egotistical diva that was only looking after numero uno. I'm sorry but fug him. He's no different than D-Will after leaving here. The only difference is we cared because Josh wasn't a declining vet yet and we weren't sick of his poo.

again, players that WANT to play with a team and reach a deal and aren't being held hostage by a tag....don't sign it immediately.

the "he should of signed the tag then" argument isn't a good one for defending Gettlemen botching this.

Williams was just bitter.  Norman was/is sad.  Williams didn't even like half the people.  Norman wants to be battling w/ the boys in our locker room.  Not even comparable.

again, when I am defending Josh Norman.....you can go ahead and squash the illogical fan angle.  I have "hated" on Norman more than most here.  Yanking the tag simply makes zero practical sense.  Simply a GM opting to flex muscle that only negatively impacted us.

[t96]

23 minutes ago, CRA said:

yeah, players routinely take a long time to sign a tag when they want a deal to get done...

people keep digging their heels into that as a Gettlemen defense.  It simply in no way justifies yanking the tag away from an All Pro that wants to be here, is liked, and isn't an issue in the locker room or off the field.

there are plenty of arguments for NOT giving Norman a deal.  There just aren't good argument for not tagging him in 2016 or yanking the tag away.

There is a good argument and it's the amount of money rescinding the tag gave the team to us on players who will be here long term.

[outlaw4]

It is worth mentioning that rescinding the tag and letting Norman walk meant gaining a comp pick. Gettleman even mentioned that factored into his decision.

In retrospect, the biggest mistake made was tagging Norman in the first place. Could've saved us the drama we're having right now because it was clear there was no way a long term deal was going to be possible. What happened, well, happened. There's some disadvantages but it did come with some advantages that I hope we take advantage of.

[AceBoogie]

24 minutes ago, CRA said:

yeah, players routinely take a long time to sign a tag when they want a deal to get done...

people keep digging their heels into that as a Gettlemen defense.  It simply in no way justifies yanking the tag away from an All Pro that wants to be here, is liked, and isn't an issue in the locker room or off the field.

there are plenty of arguments for NOT giving Norman a deal.  There just aren't good argument for not tagging him in 2016 or yanking the tag away.

 That's what they don't understand. It's not like the timeline ran out for Josh to sign the tag. The opportunity for him to sign it was taken away. Gettleman told everyone himself he began to think about how he could use the money and made the decision not to sign Josh. It's pretty damn simple. 

[AceBoogie]

11 minutes ago, Promethean Forerunner said:

Sign the tag. 

That's all he had to do. He played chicken instead. You keep saying we're defending Gettleman but from what? Doing his job? If Josh wanted to be here, he'd still be here.  It's not quantum physics. I knew he was gone the moment he whispered to Igo that he would hold out if he didn't get what he wanted, demanded QB on live TV and skipped his first team meeting/activity. If you didn't, then that's on your delusional, gullible ass.

His true colors were on display when he bitched about not getting the same attention that Cam and Luke got. Josh is an egotistical diva that was only looking after numero uno. I'm sorry but fug him. He's no different than D-Will after leaving here. The only difference is we cared because Josh wasn't a declining vet yet and we weren't sick of his poo.

His job is to retain talent. He didn't. Now 30th ranked pass defense. 

[SOJA]

Stabbed in the back

Man what an asshole for allowing him the chance to get paid 75 million dollars instead of keeping him locked up on a one year deal where his career might have ended on a freak injury. 

stabbed in the back my ass