Pundits "Stabbed in the back"

[iamhubby1]

17 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

You have been beating your head up against a brick wall.

Want to know why?

Because none of this has to do with Norman or rookie cornerbacks or Tre Boston.

99.99% of it has to do with one thing and one thing only...

Steve Smith Sr.

Yes, they are STILL that butthurt after all these years.

 

Oh, I know there is bad mojo being sent Gman's way. And that lots of fans are not happy right now. But man, all I am trying to do is drop some knowledge, and give some folks a different point of view. But they just are not going to hear of it.

 

I spend a lot of time on my couch perusing the Huddle. So I basically know who is going to listen, and have a good debate over issues. And those who are steadfast in there views. But there are times when I feel like picking it up. Those Josh threads are usually good for that. Cuz folks either hate Gman, or tolerate him. So if you take an opposing point of view, they will argue there brains out.

 

To me, the funny part is, that after all this time. There is no new slant to the Josh situation. So folks are just rehashing the same points over and over again. Like, all of a sudden, a light is going to go on, and I'm going to see the light. lol All you have to do is poo poo one of their points, and it is on like Donkey Kong.

 

I love this place. And each and every Huddler has his/her place. It's like a warm fuzzy sweater. Except for that annoying spot you can't keep from trying to rub out. You finally realize you just have to learn to live with it.

 

Short story long. Winning begets smiles, and lollipops. Losing begets sneers, and snark. But through it all. There is the varying degrees of bad juju being aimed at Gman.

[iamhubby1]

6 minutes ago, Fox007 said:

I do think that Gman has to rethink his ideas about how to run things and how to handle things AND how he thinks of himself.

I honestly think Mr. Gettle does see himself as a GodFather/Goodfella who just whacks mofos without them knowing and without him caring.

He's gotta get over that poo man...he's a smart football guy to argue otherwise is just retarded...he needs to up his interpersonal relationship game and personnel management in regards to who we currently have no who we are getting next.

I thought very highly of him and he did do well at first....this offseason has been a disaster and there are some smoke signals hinting at a fire that could be a major problem if it isn't snuffed out.

 

The only thing I know is that Gman, and Rivera are rumored to have a great working relationship. That they are like two peas in a pod. Their offices were right down the hall from each other, and they talk football all the time. Which would lead one to think that Gman is basically doing what he and Rivera together had planned.

 

IMO, they have done a pretty good job, not great, not bad, but pretty good. There have been some bumps along way, but all in all, I am excited for the direction we appear to be heading.

 

And no, I am not excited about what happened this year. But I also realize there are extenuating circumstances as to why this happened. I guess I have been around long enough that one bump, in an otherwise good looking roll, is not going to harsh my calm.

 

I guess it comes down to how each person reacts to how this year went. We here at the Huddle run the gamut. From those like me, who may be frustrated, but are not going bat poo crazy. To those who are in "Fire everyone" mode. And everywhere in between.

 

 

[panthers55]

7 hours ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

Nope. 

 

Now, this all only makes sense if you truly believe that Gman, and Ron during their end of the year evaluations. Where they were coming off a SB, and bringing back 20-22 starters. With some kids you hope will take the next step. And did not think that this year was going to be successful?

 

At the end of last year, almost everyone thought we could be good. Even with the loss of Allen, Tillman, and nobody wanting Harper. So losing Josh, plus this horrible season, has folks up in arms. Even though most thought we were still going to be competitive.

 

You can't have is both ways.

 

 

We have been competitive. Even in our losses we have been in every game but 2. But being competitive obviously isn't enough. To win consistently you need chemistry and consistency which Gman seems to downplay and thinks it is easy to build which is why he just interchanges player pieces without understanding that talent alone isn't enough.  Everyone blames Rivers and the coaches for the slow starts but I blame Gettleman. The first few years I figured he just had to let major pieces of our success go because we couldn't afford to keep them. But now I think we have to face the reality that this may keep happening every year. Because our offense and defense demands certain components for success.  McDermott obviously needed an experienced secondary with hard hitting safeties like Johnson had Brian Dawkins. Shula needed a good offensive line. Who didn't know that? 

Maybe we do need a new scheme on both sides of the ball which doesnt require pieces we won't spend for.  I find it funny that the folks criticizing the coaching give Gettleman a pass when his strategy to this point has been to get rookies, JAGs, retreads and nobodies and develop them into starting material because they are cheap. Who do you think he relies on to develop and teach these players. Sure Gettleman gets credit for finding diamonds in the rough but who does the hard work? Yeah the coaches. Yet if we don't keep these players or at least replace them with skilled vets we are going to keep struggling with  inconsistency. I hope he stops doing exactly what he says he hates which is developing players for other teams while we replace our probowl players with rookies and retreads. Keep your own  and demonstrate you care about the team and giving the coaches what they need to stay competitive.

[Anybodyhome]

On 12/17/2016 at 0:48 PM, Sasquatch said:

So his desire to be a Panther was out-weighed by his desire to be paid. If he had followed the process and started discussion with another team, he could have established an accurate market and provided an opportunity for the panthers to negotiate some form of compensation. He priced himself so high that even a compromise was beyond acceptable for the team. So they cut him loose allowing him to chase the dollar rather than force him to sit or play on what he saw as an unacceptable deal. That doesn't make the team the bad guys.

No. His desire to be a cornerback in the NFL and being paid according to his production.

It's no different than you getting paid $8/hour working at McDonalds and deciding to stay knowing BurgerKing is going to pay you $10/hour doing the same job.

If you believe there is any loyalty to a player in the NFL you are either completely naive or have absolutely no business sense at all.

[Sasquatch]

38 minutes ago, Anybodyhome said:

No. His desire to be a cornerback in the NFL and being paid according to his production.

It's no different than you getting paid $8/hour working at McDonalds and deciding to stay knowing BurgerKing is going to pay you $10/hour doing the same job.

If you believe there is any loyalty to a player in the NFL you are either completely naive or have absolutely no business sense at all.

The fact is that he could have been an NFL CB with the Panthers IF HE CHOSE TO BE. Maybe that Burger King is in a  bad section of town or a significantly longer commute. Maybe the crewmembers to be there are garbage I'm going to have to carry. Maybe I just believe staying at Macdonalds is the better option. My choice just like it was his. That doesn't mean the boss back stabbed me.

[Anybodyhome]

1 hour ago, Sasquatch said:

The fact is that he could have been an NFL CB with the Panthers IF HE CHOSE TO BE. Maybe that Burger King is in a  bad section of town or a significantly longer commute. Maybe the crewmembers to be there are garbage I'm going to have to carry. Maybe I just believe staying at Macdonalds is the better option. My choice just like it was his. That doesn't mean the boss back stabbed me.

No, he couldn't. Not sure what you don't understand here.

1. The Panthers put a franchise tag on him. If he signs the tender, he cannot negotiate with any other teams and the Panthers no longer have to negotiate a long term deal until the following year.

2. Then, the Panthers pulled the tender, so he was unable to sign and had no choice but to go elsewhere. 

Josh Norman wanted to be in Carolina more than Carolina wanted to keep him.

 

[iamhubby1]

2 minutes ago, Anybodyhome said:

No, he couldn't. Not sure what you don't understand here.

1. The Panthers put a franchise tag on him. If he signs the tender, he cannot negotiate with any other teams and the Panthers no longer have to negotiate a long term deal until the following year.

2. Then, the Panthers pulled the tender, so he was unable to sign and had no choice but to go elsewhere. 

Josh Norman wanted to be in Carolina more than Carolina wanted to keep him.

 

 

This is the main sticking point in all this. Those folks who believe this. And those who believe he wanted the money.

 

He may have wanted the money from us, but we were not going to give him the money he wanted.

 

So...he went to someone who would pay him the money, and has thrown darts at us ever since.

 

 

The sad part for me? If all this would have happened this year? We very well could have had the money to make him happy. Funny how things work.

 

 

[Sasquatch]

1 hour ago, Anybodyhome said:

No, he couldn't. Not sure what you don't understand here.

1. The Panthers put a franchise tag on him. If he signs the tender, he cannot negotiate with any other teams and the Panthers no longer have to negotiate a long term deal until the following year.

2. Then, the Panthers pulled the tender, so he was unable to sign and had no choice but to go elsewhere. 

Josh Norman wanted to be in Carolina more than Carolina wanted to keep him.

 

He could hav esigned the offer while it was on the table (for 7 weeks). Hardy signed his pretty early.

They applied the NON-EXCLUSIVE TAG. He was free to negotiate with anybody who'd talk to him!

You might make an attempt to understand the facts. Here, let me help.

From an ESPN article

" There is a nonexclusive franchise tag that allows the player to sign an offer sheet with another team. The original team has the right to match the offer or receive two first-round draft picks in compensation if the player leaves. "

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/198234/everything-youve-ever-wanted-to-know-about-nfl-franchise-tags

 

[The_Rainmaker]

Ego is killing this team

[AppHeel]

Here is my thing with this. Every player in the NFL (including Norman) understand that the league is a business. Every player also wants to get their big contracts. The fact that Norman feels that he was "stabbed in the back" is ludicrous. If anything, Dave did him a favor. He realized that he wasn't going to give him the money he sought so instead of forcing him to play under the insecurity of a one year franchise tag, he let him go free into the market where multiple teams were going to be willing to pay him what he wanted. By rescinding the tag, Gettleman allowed Josh to get the big deal and financial security that was so important to him and that every player in the NFL covets.

What if he had signed the tag, played with us this year and got hurt? You never know what can happen to lower your value. Norman feels stabbed in the back because he really wanted to be with Carolina I guess. But you know what? You can't always have your cake and eat it too. If he wanted to play here that badly he would have either signed the tag or made it work with contract numbers.

This whole thing is an overreaction.

[Anybodyhome]

14 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

He could hav esigned the offer while it was on the table (for 7 weeks). Hardy signed his pretty early.

They applied the NON-EXCLUSIVE TAG. He was free to negotiate with anybody who'd talk to him!

You might make an attempt to understand the facts. Here, let me help.

From an ESPN article

" There is a nonexclusive franchise tag that allows the player to sign an offer sheet with another team. The original team has the right to match the offer or receive two first-round draft picks in compensation if the player leaves. "

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/198234/everything-youve-ever-wanted-to-know-about-nfl-franchise-tags

 

Again, Norman wasn't going to sign an offer sheet from another team because he had no intentions of leaving. He wasn't negotiating with other teams nor did he want to. So that's a moot point. Norman never considered leaving until the Panthers pulled the tender. 

Next. 

[Daddy_Uncle]

Josh Norman is an overrated over-paid loud mouth. We got a better, younger player in Bradberry without the attention whore personality which we definitely need less of on this team

[Craig Pruitt]

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 3:28 PM, thomas96 said:

He's not going to use up all our cap space this offseason since he has said many times he keeps enough for flexibility during the season but I anticipate a lot of extensions for our boys coming. If that doesn't happen then I'll think less of the Norman move but even still some good has come from it. And that's getting both James and Daryl key reps in their rookie year. Those guys are going to be damn good, and delaying their development wouldn't have been good. Norman wouldn't have been the difference this year. Maybe DG saw that and figured it'd be pointless to have him for one year if the team isn't at that point.

I see your point but my question to you (and GMan) would be whose contracts are you trying to extend and what are you willing to pay them?

We all thought K.Short would be extended in the offseason. They couldn't agree on the terms. After seeing how the Norman situation was handled I can't help but think this had an impact on Short's play this season. Star has a fifth year option, but you have to began to consider his future with the team as well.

Trai Turner and Andrew Norwell appear soild at the guard positions. But what about Kony Ealy. Is he really worth an extension? And even if G-Man makes offers to them, do you think he'll lowball them? Remember, the cap is going up about 10million this year as well. We really can't say "We're in salary cap hell" anymore. We also have a long list of FA's to consider.

	Pos.	Age	From	To	2016 AAV	Status	Market Value
JohnsonCharles Johnson	DE	30	CAR	TBD	$3,000,000	UFA	Market Value
RemmersMike Remmers	RT	27	CAR	TBD	$2,553,000	UFA	0-
Ginn Jr.Ted Ginn Jr.	WR	31	CAR	TBD	$2,100,000	UFA	0-
AddisonMario Addison	DE	29	CAR	TBD	$1,280,000	UFA	0-
ShortKawann Short	DT	27	CAR	TBD	$1,157,584	UFA	Market Value
JonesColin Jones	FS	29	CAR	TBD	$927,500	UFA	0-
WilliamsTeddy Williams	CB	28	CAR	TBD	$900,000	UFA	0-
GriffinMichael Griffin	FS	31	CAR	TBD	$885,000	UFA	0-
WendellRyan Wendell	C	30	CAR	TBD	$885,000	UFA	0-
ScottChris Scott	G	29	CAR	TBD	$840,000	UFA	0-
LoveKyle Love	DT	30	CAR	TBD	$760,000	UFA	0-
JohnsonLeonard Johnson	CB	26	CAR	TBD	$760,000	UFA	0-
JacobsBen Jacobs	ILB	28	CAR	TBD	$675,000	UFA	0-
BersinBrenton Bersin	WR	26	CAR	TBD	$600,000	UFA	0-
KleinA.J. Klein Which of these guys would should we try our best to keep?

[Sasquatch]

1 hour ago, Anybodyhome said:

Again, Norman wasn't going to sign an offer sheet from another team because he had no intentions of leaving. He wasn't negotiating with other teams nor did he want to. So that's a moot point. Norman never considered leaving until the Panthers pulled the tender. 

Next. 

Norman wasn't going to sign an offer sheet because no team was going to give up 2 first round picks and that kind of salary for him. His plan was to hold a big chunk of the cap hostage until the team caved. The next guy may come up with a different plan. 

The only comparison we have in the Gettlemen era is Hardy who signed his tendered contract the next business day, then waited for the longer term negotiations.  Norman was only staying under a long term deal that met his terms. He gave no indication that he would sign that 1 year deal for the 7 weeks that it was on the table, then got his feelings hurt when the panthers decided  to move on. Suddenly, the 1 year deal was acceptable to him but not thePanthers. 

He got paid Good for him.