Marty Hurney's Draft History

[thefuzz]

9 minutes ago, TheRed said:

What exactly are you arguing here? Yeah Hurney couldn't draft outside the first to save his life. We aren't talking breaking news there.

Hell no the 2010 season wasn't fun. That was more than poor drafting though, we sacrificed the franchise with a lockout looming, not to mention had our wagon hitched to a lameduck coach in a throwaway year. Yeah it sucked, but it got us Cam Newton. I'll take that 10 times out of 10.

Hurney took ALOT of f*cking heat for that pick too. Not just from the idiotic analysts who had him well behind Gabbert, and some even Jake Locker too either. This board was flooded with tears about drafting Newton. Hell, people still don't like him, strange as it is, it's 100% true. He has been merely tolerated by many in this fanbase. Fans here were almost just as livid with the Luke pick too. Overall, many on the huddle are clueless. If it were up to the huddle, we wouldn't have either Cam or Luke right now. You think things are bad at the moment? Yeah, imagine the alternative.

What I was asking is why you said "no Marty Hurney means no Luke and Cam".....what makes you think that DG, or any other GM worth his salt wouldn't have chosen those two players?

I think it's very possible that DG would have taken both Cam and Luke, that's all.

 

[TheRed]

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

What I was asking is why you said "no Marty Hurney means no Luke and Cam".....what makes you think that DG, or any other GM worth his salt wouldn't have chosen those two players?

I think it's very possible that DG would have taken both Cam and Luke, that's all.

 

I can't really begin to imagine whether or not DG would have taken either. There are so many variables at play. If you completely ignore all those variables, my gut says he goes a different route than Cam to be completely honest, that's more based of Gettleman's old school ideology about football. But again, who knows.

[thefuzz]

Just now, TheRed said:

I can't really begin to imagine whether or not DG would have taken either. There are so many variables at play. If you completely ignore all those variables, my gut says he goes a different route than Cam to be completely honest, that's more based of Gettleman's old school ideology about football. But again, who knows.

That's all I was getting at.....we have no clue if DG/other GM would have taken Cam and Luke, so we can't really say that without Marty we wouldn't have our cornerstones.

 

DG believes that big men allow you to compete....I can't think of a "bigger man" than Cam Newton at the QB position.

[Peppers90 NC]

Neither guy has hit on a big FA but Gettleman definitely used FA to fill out the roster way better than Hurndog. 

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, Peppers90 NC said:

Neither guy has hit on a big FA but Gettleman definitely used FA to fill out the roster way better than Hurndog. 

Both believe/believed in signing our own before free agency starts.  Our big FA's under Hurney...Anderson, Williams, Stew, Beason, Gamble, Gross, Jake, Smith, Johnson, etc....

DG is similar...Cam, Luke, TD, Olsen, Kalil, etc.....

This hasn't been a "big FA splash" team in quite some time.

[TheRed]

1 minute ago, thefuzz said:

That's all I was getting at.....we have no clue if DG/other GM would have taken Cam and Luke, so we can't really say that without Marty we wouldn't have our cornerstones.

 

DG believes that big men allow you to compete....I can't think of a "bigger man" than Cam Newton at the QB position.

You're grasping at straws here to discredit Hurney when you don't even need to. Overall he sucked. But whether we like it or not we can't take the Cam, and Luke picks that were anything but popular or approved by our fan base away from him. Those are once in a generation talents. 

Cam Newton basically had to be told by our owner before we even drafted him not to be too black. IE no tattoos or corn rows.

Again. I have doubts.

[thefuzz]

Just now, TheRed said:

You're grasping at straws here to discredit Hurney when you don't even need to. Overall he sucked. But whether we like it or not we can't take the Cam, and Luke picks that were anything but popular or approved by our fan base away from him. Those are once in a generation talents. 

Cam Newton basically had to be told by our owner before we even drafted him not to be too black. IE no tattoos or corn rows.

Again. I have doubts.

I'm not discrediting Hurney, I'm saying that it's very possible that DG would have turned in the same cards...that's all.

 

[The_Rainmaker]

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

That's all I was getting at.....we have no clue if DG/other GM would have taken Cam and Luke, so we can't really say that without Marty we wouldn't have our cornerstones.

 

DG believes that big men allow you to compete....I can't think of a "bigger man" than Cam Newton at the QB position.

 Doubt he would have taken him as QB. Also it's big men at certain position allow you to compete not every damn position. The NFL is now about instincts, speed,& athleticism. DG messed up when he drafted Funchess who can't create separation and serves the same function as KB & Olsen. 

[ShutDwn]

Hurney getting credit for picking Luke and Cam is like crediting the captain who sunk his ship and found treasure at the bottom.

[TheRed]

8 minutes ago, ShutDwn said:

Hurney getting credit for picking Luke and Cam is like crediting the captain who sunk his ship and found treasure at the bottom.

Treasure is drafting two stud DT's back to back.

Drafting Cam Newton, and Luke Kuechly in consecutive seasons is like hitting the lottery twice in two years for $50 million.

[RickyManningJr]

15 hours ago, Saca312 said:

So, in light of some recent posts concerning Gettleman and questions surrounding his draft picks, I decided to make a reply with all of Hurney's draft choices with analysis. 

So, without further ado, @The_Rainmaker here's that Hurney draft history report I promised you:

2002

	2002
1	Julius Peppers
2	Deshaun Foster
3	Will Witherspoon
4	Dante Wesley
5	Randy Fasani
5	Kyle Johnson
6	Keith Heinrich
7	Brad Franklin

Grade: D

Hurney's first draft here. I really didn't look at this draft much except just my hatred of the Peppers situation, so sorry about my earlier post on that. I got that out of my mind, and looked at this draft with a level head.

You scored on the biggest freak in the draft with the second overall pick in the first round. Hard to miss that. I guess one could ague we get a decent JAG RB committee, but nothing flashy at all. Wesley's a decent CB during his tenure here, but nothing flashy.

Foster's a bust; Panthers let Witherspoon eventually walk in FA even with his talent. So I guess based on the draft, we got a HoF (who was hard to miss with the number 2 overall honestly, so I didn't skew the grading that much) and Witherspoon and an okay corner. Other than that, not so much stuff, reason my grade stays a D.

2003

	2003
1	Jordan Gross
2	Bruce Nelson
3	Mike Seidman
3	Ricky Manning
4	Colin Branch
5	Kindal Moorehead
7	Walter Young
7	Casey Moore

Grade: D

Jordan Gross. Only real bright spot from the draft. Sure, Ricky Manning was servicable for a bit, but then he became the backup for many other teams. Seidman and Nelson were busts. No one else is worth mentioning. Overall a very poor draft yet again, with a high first round pick as the only bright spot.

2004

	2004
1	Chris Gamble
2	Keary Colbert
3	Travelle Wharton
5	Drew Carter
6	Sean Tufts
7	Michael Gaines

Grade: C

Chris Gamble was servicable, and arguably one of our better cornerbacks, so that was a good pick near the end of the first round, though injuries kept him at bay. Gaines was a steal for his draft position, being a servicable blocking TE for a couple of years. Colbert underperformed most of his career, definitely not worth his second round consideration.

2005

	2005
1	Thomas Davis
2	Eric Shelton
3	Evan Mathis
3	Atiyyah Ellison
4	Stefan Lefors
5	Adam Seward
5	Geoff Hangartner
5	Ben Emanuel
6	Jovan Haye
6	Joe Berger

Grade: D

Only reason I even put him at that high of a grade was because he drafted my favorite linebacker of all time; Thomas Davis- the man, the myth, the legend. Love him to death. But otherwise, not much to see. Hangartner was solid with his contributions as a versatile guard/center. Shelton retired early, played only 2 years. Mathis is your Revis of his position; journeyman to the highest bidder. Ellison was a bust. Most others are garbage. 

2006

	2006
1	DeAngelo Williams
2	Richard Marshall
3	James Anderson
3	Rashad Butler
4	Nate Salley
5	Jeff King
7	Will Montgomery
7	Stanley McClover

Grade: B

Decent Draft. Had some serviceable guys from this draft. DeAngelo for one is the main guy, though he later became a lazy fug. Anderson was solid. Salley busted. King was a good player. Only real impact player was DeLo, as a player that pops out. Otherwise, everyone else was either serviceable or duds. Not that much duds though.

 

2007

	2007
1	Jon Beason
2	Dwayne Jarrett
2	Ryan Kalil
3	Charles Johnson
4	Ryne Robinson
5	Dante Rosario
5	Tim Shaw
7	C.J. Wilson

Grade: A-

Really good draft in all honesty, Hurney's standalone best. Jon Beason was a fantastic linebacker for us, though injuries hindered his full potential. Dwayne Jarrett was a bust though. Ryan Kalil is our All-Pro center for us today, and heaves the chains. Charles Johnson has shown flashes of greatness plenty of times, and is a great DE. Robinson busted though, Wilson was a ST ace, and Rosario bounced around on squads. Overall a really decent draft scoring on 2 All-Pros and a quality DE in Charles Johnson. A good spot for Hurney. Now, if only he continued having these years...

2008

	2008
1	Jonathan Stewart
1	Jeff Otah
3	Charles Godfrey
3	Dan Connor
5	Gary Barnidge
6	Nick Hayden
7	Hilee Taylor
7	Geoff Schwartz
7	Mackenzy Bernadeau

Grade: C-

Decent draft. Nailed Jonathan Stewart, but it's a pretty high first round pick and its hard to miss those. Otah was a quality tackle we grabbed, besides his injury prone self, but the value we gave up to get him was catastrophic: considering the likes of Jamaal Charles, and Ray Rice were waiting to be picked in the second round. Godfrey was servicable, but no where near eye-popping good. Connors injuries killed him as well. Everyone else is JAG. Decent, but not impactful.

2009

	2009
2	Everette Brown
2	Sherrod Martin
3	Corvey Irvin
4	Mike Goodson
4	Tony Fiametta
5	Duke Robinson
7	Captain Munnerlyn

Grade: F+

He only gets a F+ instead of F------- because of Munnerlyn and where we got him. Munnerlyn was a great pick for his draft position. 

Other than that, well, um...Goodson? Already had DeAngelo and Stewart though...um...anyone else really that wasn't an obvious bust? Hmmm. Maybe I should change it back to an F-....

2010

	2010
2	Jimmy Clausen
3	Brandon Lafell
3	Armanti Edwards
4	Eric Norwood
6	Greg Hardy
6	David Gettis
6	Jordan Pugh
6	Tony Pike
7	R.J. Stanford
7	Robert McClain

Grade: D-

Unimpressive draft. Greg Hardy is the only brightspot, before he went pyscho, and getting some servicable players for a few years like LaFell, and others, but really most are either depth, busts, or goners. And we all know how the Clausen era went...

2011

	2011
1	Cam Newton
3	Terrell McClain
3	Sione Fua
4	Brandon Hogan
5	Kealoha Pilares
6	Lawrence Wilson
6	Zachary Williams
7	Lee Ziemba

Grade: F+

You got the number 1 overall pick for this draft; pretty dang hard to miss. And lo and behold, Cam Newton was found. Our MVP QB that will be one of the GOATS if we get him some good coaches. Anyhow, as for everyone else; Oh gosh. Busts everywhere. I don't think we really got a single solid starter or backup other than Cam from that draft. That says a lot.

So why the F+? The + is for nailing the first overall pick, since you can't exactly "steal" the number one pick of the draft. Otherwise, everyone else is busts/gone/terrible. People don't really see how bad our other round picks were.

2012

	2012
1	Luke Kuechly
2	Amini Silatolu
4	Frank Alexander
4	Joe Adams
5	Josh Norman
6	Brad Nortman
7	D.J. Campbell

Grade: A-

Not that bad of a draft. Amini was a servicable guard for us before we discovered us some Norwell. Kuechly is our All-Pro once in a generation MLB. Frank Alexander showed flashes before going full retard and being suspended so much. Adams was meh. Josh Norman was our all-pro CB last year, and was a huge product of our fantastic CB coach in Steve Wilks. Brad Nortman was a servicable Punter. One of Hurney's better drafts, and it was his last.

I'll give credit where it is due; Hurney has had a few decent drafts. Most GMs do. But there are many, many instances where he's failed. 

The results sure surprised me with how much he failed though. He's a good first round drafter, but can't find sustainable players later on for the most part. 

Otherwise, far worse than Gettleman by far honestly, and that's WITH Gettleman picking bottom 10 of each round most of the time, and Hurney near top 15 every year.

He's good at picking round 1 picks, and okay at finding talent in rounds 2-3 through a few years, with some random lucky gems here and there. Otherwise, pales in comparison so far with how Gettleman is able to find talent everywhere.

And now Gettleman may be making his first top 10 pick here soon. 

That alone is exciting.

 

Sweet, I don't care what you think of the picks.  For example DeShaun Foster and Will Witherspoon were worth a lot more than you acknowledge. So an A draft is 7 hall of fame players?

[ShutDwn]

33 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Treasure is drafting two stud DT's back to back.

Drafting Cam Newton, and Luke Kuechly in consecutive seasons is like hitting the lottery twice in two years for $50 million.

But only the lottery you're allowed to play if you basically add two players in three drafts.

Gettleman is the guy flipping houses that finds rare paintings in a hoarder's basement.

[Fox007]

52 minutes ago, TheRed said:

You're grasping at straws here to discredit Hurney when you don't even need to. Overall he sucked. But whether we like it or not we can't take the Cam, and Luke picks that were anything but popular or approved by our fan base away from him. Those are once in a generation talents. 

Cam Newton basically had to be told by our owner before we even drafted him not to be too black. IE no tattoos or corn rows.

Again. I have doubts.

No he isn't...you made a false claim. you can't say we wouldn't have those two players without Hurney.

It's not just his decision anyway, so it's stupid to give him all of the credit for those picks then equally as stupid to say other GMs wouldn't pick them.

 

[TheRed]

4 minutes ago, Fox007 said:

No he isn't...you made a false claim. you can't say we wouldn't have those two players without Hurney.

It's not just his decision anyway, so it's stupid to give him all of the credit for those picks then equally as stupid to say other GMs wouldn't pick them.

 

Oh shut it already.

I never said other GM's wouldn't have made the picks anyway. Another poster trotted that one out. The entire point was you can't change history. Like it or not, Hurney made those picks. And they were not popular here whatsoever.

The entire point of my original post was that the days of scapegoating Hurney are over. This is Gettleman's ship now. We're either gonna sink or we're gonna thrive. We will see. We better go all in on offense in the offseason. I know that much.