Gil Brandt says Let KK Walk...

[LinvilleGorge]

4 hours ago, TheMaulClaw said:

Your not including 2013 right? He was benched for a portion of 2014.

So he had exactly one good year, and almost all of his picks came in the first 4 games.

Norman is overrated. Imagine how bad GMAN would be taking it if we would have resigned Norman and we still sucked.

I agreed with the decision to let Norman walk, but the Redskins are 6-4-1 with the 16th ranked passing defense (25th last season). We're 4-7 with the 29th ranked passing defense (11th last season). Not sure how anxious I am to still be pounding my chest about how ballsy and awesome we were on that one.

[Montsta]

12 hours ago, CPantherKing said:

This has been ongoing for a few seasons.

I just discuss my position and ignore the attacks. Since he has brought you and maybe some others into this character assassination, I will make a couple points and then I am done with it.

I am known for my stance against several of Gettleman's decisons and philosophy  - you seem to be aware of that. My arguments led to a group of Gettleman supporters attacking me for my view - Mr. Scot being one of them. They believe most if all of my arguments have no merit and discredit any source I put forward.

I believe that this group is of the opinion that I make these facts up. So, they make up narratives about me, which you were just subjected to by Mr. Scot. They do not want others to see any value in my opposition regarding Gettleman.

They have tried to bait me into an offense that could get me banned. That failed to work since I do not engage with those political antics. They bully anyone who is opposed to the actions of Gettleman, and run most of them off.

I apologize they brought you into their politics because you chose to reply to me respectfully. Also, I apologize they wasted your time vetting a forum post. I respect your efforts to hold a poster accountable for nefarious acts against another poster.

I would much rather see them rebut an opinion to produce a constructive debate.

Now, back to Panthers football.

In fairness, this is by far the most well thought out, articulate post I've seen from you. If your anti-Gettleman posts were written as well as this one, a lot more people would engage in Panther football debate with you. 

When your posts are derp Gettlemagic and we would win if Norman was here this game or something remedial like that, it stands to reason it will bring out the most remedial responses from other people. 

Keep your posting here to the standard you've just set for yourself with this post, and the rest will sort itself out. 

[Mr. Scot]

11 hours ago, stbugs said:

I remember the quote thing. He absolutely used quotes trying to attribute them to Rivera that Mr. Scot found and were completely about someone else and not Rivera. He's blatantly made up stuff, but that was a case where he completely faked a story to fit his rambling ideas. I've found so many inaccuracies in his posts it isn't even funny. I don't know anything about plagiarism but I've only been on this site since this season's draft and I know what kind of poster he is. He assumes that if he writes a long winded post that appears to show that he knows what he's talking about that people will believe him. A lot of posters do because most people don't verify another post. I tend to notice the most obvious flaw in his post, like how he tried to say that Butler blocking a kick was no big deal because it happens all the time (it doesn't) or that the fact that we were on pace to lead the league in turnovers was no big deal by posting numbers that were absurd (5% of playoff teams had high turnovers).

I don't know for sure if he plagiarizes, but I sure wouldn't be surprised since he absolutely tries to deceive people with complete BS posts and absolutely did take quotes completely out of context and attribute them to someone who they weren't from/about. That was a blatant lie.

The post you're referring to is here.

The response to it was here, and quoted below.

Quote

On 8/14/2016 at 7:19 PM, CPantherKing said:

You seem to be a forgetful historian.

Please find your own information instead of just calling BS. Here are a few quotes since you forgot them or can not find the information. Some I have recorded. There are many more you can find on the subject. Also, you need more substance behind your posts.

Shall we put these in context?

“The big thing that has to happen is [Ealy] has to be consistent, and he hasn’t been consistent yet. When he gets consistent, you’ll know he’s arrived. It’s two good ones, one bad one. Or two bad ones, two good ones. It’s got to be consistent,” Rivera said. - August 6, 2015, Rivera praises consistent practice

So here we're looking at a quote from last training camp before Kony's season and breakout Super Bowl performance.

Not a good start, but it gets worse.

Despite that strong finish, Rivera had said Ealy was too inconsistent -- particularly against the run -- to be the every-down end he was looking for to replace Greg Hardy. - August 30, 2015, Kony Ealy has earned starting job

This one is not only from last year, but it's actually talking about the previous year.  From the same article:
 

Quote

Carolina Panthers coach Ron Rivera stated that one of his goals entering training camp was to find an every-down defensive end to play opposite Charles Johnson.

Mission accomplished.

Rivera said on Sunday that Kony Ealy has proven worthy of being the every-down starter on the right side barring a major collapse in Thursday night’s preseason finale at Pittsburgh.

And he doesn’t anticipate that.

“He has taken the bull by the horns,’’ Rivera said of Ealy.

Heh :)

Moving on...

"I told [Benwikere], 'Well, you’re looking pretty rusty,'" Rivera said. "He knows, and he’s just going to keep working, hopefully work himself back into it."  - August 3, 2016, Benwikere returns to practice

Oh look, finally a quote from this year, but it's about his first practice back from injury and does nothing to show that Rivera has, or has long held, trust issues. The article also says this:

Quote

Rivera said the plan going forward is to work Benwikere at both left and right cornerback. And of course, he has experience at nickel.

"We’re going to work him at both. We have find out where his home is," Rivera said. "Bene is a versatile guy, he plays the slot as well for us in the nickel situation. We’ll work him and see how things unfold. At the end of the day, we’re going to play the best guys out there."

Basically, they're looking for his best fit as a starter.  Trust issue?  Yeah, sure.

Oh, but it hasn't gotten really fun yet.

First, there's this...

"We’ve just got to get the young guys acclimated to the standard that we’ve set around here and get the trust part down." - Ron Rivera

That's the most recent quote, coming August 11th, only Ron Rivera didn't say it.  Cam Newton did.  You can can see it in context here: Recap: Ravens 22, Panthers 19

Likewise, this first quote...

"When they can trust that you know what you’re doing, they are going to give you more chances."

Also not Ron Rivera.  It's from Scott Simonson, talking about himself.  See it here: Simonson making a strong push for a roster spot

See, we historians tend to like things in context, and preferably attributed to the people who actually said them.

So once again, you're shown to be a phony with no credibility.

All sourced and linked to clearly show that he was posting false and misleading information.

He responded to that with this.

On 8/15/2016 at 2:28 AM, CPantherKing said:

Keep trying to avoid the trust factor Rivera employs that has taken these players out of starting roles.

Rivera hammers it and lets them know they lose trust with their play on the field. He does it so much that the players are repeating his words/talking points to reporters.

Gettleman keeps putting pressure on Rivera to play the players Gettleman brings in, but Rivera is not going to stick with them if they lose his and the starters trust. Gettleman can avoid making moves to strengthen the team in an effort to force Rivera's hand, but when they keep costing the team for the first few weeks, Gettleman will be getting the vets Rivera wants. Just a waste of the Panthers future with the way Gettleman leverages Rivera with the personnel. We see it time and time again.

Everything bolded here: Completely unsourced, fabricated, made up, meant to give the impression that he knows what's going on inside the team when in reality he has no inside info at all.

So again, honesty: not his strong suit.

But he's just a poor victim of bullies, right?

[LinvilleGorge]

If you think the guy is full of poo, just ignore his posts. Do we really need to derail threads over pissing matches?

No one else cares.

[Gin and Juice]

In all fairness, both sides of the Gettleman argument are right to a degree. There are two types of managers, those that play the low risk and those that play the high risk. Gettleman is just a touch too conservative when it comes to financial risk vs. reward. I'm thankful he isn't a Dan Snyder type that throws money at a position but he needs to take more chances regarding Free Agency. 

Our crappy pass defense has more to do with our front seven than Norman being let go and the youth in our secondary. Our edge Rush is atrocious and needs to be addressed in the worst way. He has to take on some bigger risk this offseason. The same philosophy has to be applied to our OT's. This offseason will show me a lot regarding how well Dave can adapt to changing up his methodology. The draft does not offer viable solutions to cure our woes. He has to get in on the bidding game and win some bids. He will have to trade picks to acquire some viable solutions. Landing a JPP/Rieff type combo in the offseason is vital, even if it means overpaying. Same for a vet CB like Gilmore

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Gin and Juice said:

In all fairness, both sides of the Gettleman argument are right to a degree. There are two types of managers, those that play the low risk and those that play the high risk. Gettleman is just a touch too conservative when it comes to financial risk vs. reward. I'm thankful he isn't a Dan Snyder type that throws money at a position but he needs to take more chances regarding Free Agency. 

Our crappy pass defense has more to do with our front seven than Norman being let go and the youth in our secondary. Our edge Rush is atrocious and needs to be addressed in the worst way. He has to take on some bigger risk this offseason. The same philosophy has to be applied to our OT's. This offseason will show me a lot regarding how well Dave can adapt to changing up his methodology. The draft does not offer viable solutions to cure our woes. He has to get in on the bidding game and win some bids. He will have to trade picks to acquire some viable solutions. Landing a JPP/Rieff type combo in the offseason is vital, even if it means overpaying. Same for a vet CB like Gilmore

And see, this is viable discussion material, which is rare these days because all we can generally get is either stuff on the low intellectual level of "gettledouche" and "everything sucks" or made up s--t that's spun harder than a tornado.

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, Gin and Juice said:

In all fairness, both sides of the Gettleman argument are right to a degree. There are two types of managers, those that play the low risk and those that play the high risk. Gettleman is just a touch too conservative when it comes to financial risk vs. reward. I'm thankful he isn't a Dan Snyder type that throws money at a position but he needs to take more chances regarding Free Agency. 

Our crappy pass defense has more to do with our front seven than Norman being let go and the youth in our secondary. Our edge Rush is atrocious and needs to be addressed in the worst way. He has to take on some bigger risk this offseason. The same philosophy has to be applied to our OT's. This offseason will show me a lot regarding how well Dave can adapt to changing up his methodology. The draft does not offer viable solutions to cure our woes. He has to get in on the bidding game and win some bids. He will have to trade picks to acquire some viable solutions. Landing a JPP/Rieff type combo in the offseason is vital, even if it means overpaying. Same for a vet CB like Gilmore

Currently tied for 3rd in the league in sacks (10th in hurries), 29th in pass defense. While we don't have a single great pass rusher, as a team we're getting to the QB.

Survey says...

Secondary sucks.

[Mr. Scot]

9 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Currently tied for 3rd in the league in sacks (10th in hurries), 29th in pass defense. While we don't have a single great pass rusher, as a team we're getting to the QB.

Survey says...

Secondary sucks.

How much of this season has seen a fully healthy secondary?

We're beaten up all over the place, though not as much on DL till recently (Addison).

I'd be interested to see a chart of which units have been hit hardest. Gotta figure OL is number one, but after that I'd need to see some numbers. Who was injured what week, broken down by units.

What's @KB_fan doing right now?

[Gin and Juice]

7 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Currently tied for 3rd in the league in sacks (10th in hurries), 29th in pass defense. While we don't have a single great pass rusher, as a team we're getting to the QB.

Survey says...

Secondary sucks.

While I respect the stat itself, it seems to me that our consistency at generating pass rush from game to game is the biggest failure. I will agree that our secondary is too damn young. We need veteran presence in our backfield. 

This is the year we need to throw money at those 27-30 year old Free Agents. We also need to keep our proven players, even if they had a down year

[gorillamilitia13]

14 hours ago, TheMaulClaw said:

How many great seasons has Josh Norman had?

That's irrelevant! They are two completely different people one mans come up is not the same as another. All that matters now is that Josh Norman is an outstanding corner and we can't make the judgement on whether or not Bradberry will ever be as good as him. Tbh I hope it happens but its unlikely. Which isn't a knock on Bradberry but more a testament to how good Norman is.

[LinvilleGorge]

16 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

How much of this season has seen a fully healthy secondary?

We're beaten up all over the place, though not as much on DL till recently (Addison).

I'd be interested to see a chart of which units have been hit hardest. Gotta figure OL is number one, but after that I'd need to see some numbers. Who was injured what week, broken down by units.

What's @KB_fan doing right now?

Losing Bradberry definitely hurt, but the loss was magnified because he was the only NFL caliber CB on the roster for most of the season, though Worley looks to be coming along.

LB might be #2 behind OL in terms of starters impacted by injury.  Both Luke and Shaq have missed multiple games.

[LinvilleGorge]

15 minutes ago, Gin and Juice said:

While I respect the stat itself, it seems to me that our consistency at generating pass rush from game to game is the biggest failure. I will agree that our secondary is too damn young. We need veteran presence in our backfield. 

This is the year we need to throw money at those 27-30 year old Free Agents. We also need to keep our proven players, even if they had a down year

When we're #3 in sacks and #10 in hurries, I have a hard time calling the pass rush the biggest issue. I think a lot of us are thrown off by the fact that we don't have a single guy who is consistently creating pressure. We're doing it collectively as a unit. Addison is our top sack guy and he's tied for 21st in the NFL at 6.5. But, in terms of consistency, CJ is still our top pass rusher. He's the only player we have in the top 50 in the league in hurries. He's #14 with 18.

[Gin and Juice]

34 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

When we're #3 in sacks and #10 in hurries, I have a hard time calling the pass rush the biggest issue. I think a lot of us are thrown off by the fact that we don't have a single guy who is consistently creating pressure. We're doing it collectively as a unit. Addison is our top sack guy and he's tied for 21st in the NFL at 6.5. But, in terms of consistency, CJ is still our top pass rusher. He's the only player we have in the top 50 in the league in hurries. He's #14 with 18.

I'm not disputing that our secondary needs help. In my opinion, I think it's a 60/40 problem and 60 being on our lack of a feared edge rusher. When we do get pressure, it's almost by smoke and mirrors, but we need a dominant JPP type edge guy. That guy that always wins his battles, just a matter of how quickly he wins them. That stays in the brain of a QB. I use JPP as an example because he is the only one I see in FA that could fill that role. Hoping Kony just hit that 3rd year wall this year and gets back to form next year. We all grossly underestimated the value of Allen last year. His value stemmed from being a vet, not by stats. Losing Norman was/is hard, however, same for Harper and Finnegan. I hope we can retain CJ, simply for vet presence if nothing else.

[Mr. Scot]

18 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

Plagiarism is a pretty serious thing to accuse someone of. Can you point me to the source? 

Found it.

Ron Rivera on starting two rookie CBs: "There was a team a few years ago that started three DBs that were all rookies and they won the Super Bowl"

Knew that sounded familiar. Turns out it wasn't really that tough to find, either.  Searched for mentions of Ronnie Lott, and right there it was.

Rivera brought up the comparison in an interview back in August, but here CPK presents it as if it's his original idea.

23 hours ago, CPantherKing said:

I believe the basis for the destruction of the secondary was that if the 49ers could do it in 1981 with 3 rookies and a veteran, then so could the Panthers.

No sourcing.  No referencing Rivera's statements.  No mention that the idea was previously discussed on this forum.  Nothing.  It's presented as if he just suddenly came up with this insight all on his own.

So again - as we already knew - CPK is a fraud.