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Someone explain for me please...

Jeremy Igo

By Jeremy Igo,
in Carolina Panthers

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coralreefer_1 Newbie

coralreefer_1

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, Paintballr said:

 


Yup.....

Especially with his historic success....

Miami....
Alabama....
Tampa....
Jacksonville...
Carolina....



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Gota call stop to that. He isnt all that godlike for us as a fanbase. But think about it from his perspective. This list shows continues improvement (in regards to how some future employer will evaluate him). From this point he rose up the college level...works with some crappy pro teams....came to the Panthers and groomed/called plays for what most here will call the greatest QB in our franchise history ( some sucking nuts enough to say the best all around QB i the NFL)...get his team to the SB last year.

 

Too many are looking at him from our glasses,and not from the glasses of people that have the ability or desire to employ him. WE see poo play calling...but on the macro-level he is trending up. Coordinators/Coaches are not like players with a very limited window where mass production is needed. History beyond one season carries far more weight...and while i know many dont like to hear it....We won 3 conference championships, best offense in the NFL,  and a super bowl appearance recently. People in suits dont look at Cam or TD or Luke for that...they look at the other suits.

 

We all hate the calls from time to time...but we only hate them when they dont work/we fug up. When it does work and we are winning....you ppl lick his hole. When it doesnt...you burn his hole. Those however with far more at stake than just being a fan with PSL and far more invested in the game will likely see and value his worth differently.

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Paintballr Newbie

Paintballr

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Gota call stop to that. He isnt all that godlike for us as a fanbase. But think about it from his perspective. This list shows continues improvement (in regards to how some future employer will evaluate him). From this point he rose up the college level...works with some crappy pro teams....came to the Panthers and groomed/called plays for what most here will call the greatest QB in our franchise history ( some sucking nuts enough to say the best all around QB i the NFL)...get his team to the SB last year.

 

Too many are looking at him from our glasses,and not from the glasses of people that have the ability or desire to employ him. WE see poo play calling...but on the macro-level he is trending up. Coordinators/Coaches are not like players with a very limited window where mass production is needed. History beyond one season carries far more weight...and while i know many dont like to hear it....We won 3 conference championships, best offense in the NFL,  and a super bowl appearance recently. People in suits dont look at Cam or TD or Luke for that...they look at the other suits.

 

We all hate the calls from time to time...but we only hate them when they dont work/we fug up. When it does work and we are winning....you ppl lick his hole. When it doesnt...you burn his hole. Those however with far more at stake than just being a fan with PSL and far more invested in the game will likely see and value his worth differently.

I can also play devils advocate here...

He was the OC in Tampa Bay from 1996-1999. Ask @JeremyIgo about how well that offense was. Tony Dungy could never get over the hump with him as his OC. He could never get anything consistent from Tent Dilfer and "helped" Shaun king as a rookie. He left Tampa Bay "mutually" to go be the QB coach of Miami...so looking from the "employer" stand point as you called it, he was demoted.

In Miami he was the QB coach from 2000-2002. Dan Marino was no longer around and he helped Jay Fielder throw 14 TDs and 14 INTs his first year. In 2001 he helped Jay improve to 20 TDs and 19 INTs. In 2002 Jay didn't show any improvement, got hurt, and didn't show any grooming of any QB talent. They rode Ricky Williams to the playoffs those years....so then he leaves in 2002 to go Alabama as the HC. Promotion? Maybe? Let's see.

Alabama in 2003 hired Mike Price to be their HC. He had a recruiting class, spring practice and THEN got fired for conduct. So Alabama was DESPERATE for a HC. They then call up Mike who is thinking "well I've been demoted in the NFL let me take my dream job and alma". In 2002 Alabama had sanctions of 21 scholarships and no bowl games for two years, AND just fired their HC that had been there for less than 10 months. Who the hell would take that job (big name)? So let's give Mike some credit, he went 4-9 with no recruiting class, alabamas 4th head coach in 4 years and a poo show.

In 2004-2006 Mike showed some improved in '04 to get to 6-6. Then in '05, mike has his "best year yet" as a HC. They win 9 in a row and finish 10-2 with a bowl victory (sound familiar to his success at Carolina?). Then Mike fell back to earth, in '06 after making a "splash" (sound familiar?) they went 4-6 with Mike being fired Mid season! Why would a college who had sanctions, fire their HC after steady improvement? Because Mike Shula is a one hit wonder. Teams found them out, and he can't recruit for poo (you can thank Mike Price for that recruiting class). So what does Mike do now? Does he continue getting HC jobs? Nope...

Mike then goes back to the NFL as a QB coach. What college HC does that? 2007-2010 as a QB coach with the Jacksonville Jaguars. He then shows his best "coaching" skills with David Garrard. He has a decent season, and shows potential...let's see how he develops that the next 3 years...

Garrard

'07 64% Comp 18 TD 3 INT

'08 62% Comp 15 TD 13 INT

'09 60% Comp 15 TD 10 INT

'10 64% Comp 23 TD 15 INT

What screams development? Mike left ship for the same job in Carolina, the next year Del Rio gets fired and Garrard is never heard of again in the NFL.

So back to your original point, if this is your resume, please tell me what screams out to you as "developing" players, constant growth, moving up in the ranks etc.

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coralreefer_1 Newbie

coralreefer_1

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, Paintballr said:

 

 


I can also play devils advocate here...


He was the OC in Tampa Bay from 1996-1999. Ask @JeremyIgo about how well that offense was. Tony Dungy could never get over the hump with him as his OC. He could never get anything consistent from Tent Dilfer and "helped" Shaun king as a rookie. He left Tampa Bay "mutually" to go be the QB coach of Miami...so looking from the "employer" stand point as you called it, he was demoted.

In Miami he was the QB coach from 2000-2002. Dan Marino was no longer around and he helped Jay Fielder throw 14 TDs and 14 INTs his first year. In 2001 he helped Jay improve to 20 TDs and 19 INTs. In 2002 Jay didn't show any improvement, got hurt, and didn't show any grooming of any QB talent. They rode Ricky Williams to the playoffs those years....so then he leaves in 2002 to go Alabama as the HC. Promotion? Maybe? Let's see.

Alabama in 2003 hired Mike Price to be their HC. He had a recruiting class, spring practice and THEN got fired for conduct. So Alabama was DESPERATE for a HC. They then call up Mike who is thinking "well I've been demoted in the NFL let me take my dream job and alma". In 2002 Alabama had sanctions of 21 scholarships and no bowl games for two years, AND just fired their HC that had been there for less than 10 months. Who the hell would take that job (big name)? So let's give Mike some credit, he went 4-9 with no recruiting class, alabamas 4th head coach in 4 years and a poo show.

In 2004-2006 Mike showed some improved in '04 to get to 6-6. Then in '05, mike has his "best year yet" as a HC. They win 9 in a row and finish 10-2 with a bowl victory (sound familiar to his success at Carolina?). Then Mike fell back to earth, in '06 after making a "splash" (sound familiar?) they went 4-6 with Mike being fired Mid season! Why would a college who had sanctions, fire their HC after steady improvement? Because Mike Shula is a one hit wonder. Teams found them out, and he can't recruit for poo (you can thank Mike Pence for that recruiting class). So what does Mike do now? Does he continue getting HC jobs? Nope...

Mike then goes back to the NFL as a QB coach. What college HC does that? 2007-2010 as a QB coach with the Jacksonville Jaguars. He then shows his best "coaching" skills with David Garrard. He has a decent season, and shows potential...let's see how he develops that the next 3 years...

Garrard
'07 64% Comp 18 TD 3 INT
'08 62% Comp 15 TD 13 INT
'09 60% Comp 15 TD 10 INT
'10 64% Comp 23 TD 15 INT

What screams development? Mike left ship for the same job in Carolina, the next year Del Rio gets fired and Garrard is never heard of again in the NFL.

So back to your original point, if this is your resume, please tell me what screams out to you as "developing" players, constant growth, moving up in the ranks etc.


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what screams at his resume it the last few. You know...the one where his offense won the division the last 3....where his QB won MVP...there the coach was named coach of the year,where his offense was the highest scoring % wise last year.  Not saying he is great.....but those arent not things that look bad on a resume.

 

Again, the eyes of a fan...and the eyes of a GM are very different. far less men have been hired to far greater positions for far less

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Paintballr Newbie

Paintballr

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what screams at his resume it the last few. You know...the one where his offense won the division the last 3....where his QB won MVP...there the coach was named coach of the year,where his offense was the highest scoring % wise last year.  Not saying he is great.....but those arent not things that look bad on a resume.

 

Again, the eyes of a fan...and the eyes of a GM are very different. far less men have been hired to far greater positions for far less



History shows he doesn't develop players.

He has Cam Newton at QB. One of the most gifted, naturally talented QBs EVER to play this game. He rode Cam's success. Look back to when Chud left. Ron was on the hot seat, Marty Hurney was about to be fired, and do you think Ron wanted to bring in an OC that could potentially take over his job mid season? Hell no. You claim that Shula should say "I had the league MVP, that's because of me!" What can be say about Alabama? They had a fantastic year when he was a HC and then fired mid season. Face it, Shula does not have the track record of a successful development of players, or teams.


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coralreefer_1 Newbie

coralreefer_1

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Posted
17 hours ago, Paintballr said:

 


History shows he doesn't develop players.

He has Cam Newton at QB. One of the most gifted, naturally talented QBs EVER to play this game. He rode Cam's success. Look back to when Chud left. Ron was on the hot seat, Marty Hurney was about to be fired, and do you think Ron wanted to bring in an OC that could potentially take over his job mid season? Hell no. You claim that Shula should say "I had the league MVP, that's because of me!" What can be say about Alabama? They had a fantastic year when he was a HC and then fired mid season. Face it, Shula does not have the track record of a successful development of players, or teams.


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Now you are just losing it dude. noone gives a damn about whether he developed players because developing players in not an OC job ( that is what coaches are for) For a suit like him//all anyone cares about is what the people under him did. Weird how management works like that isnt it? thats ist not about what YOU do...but rather what the people under you do actually do. IN that regard him as an OC and managing the offense...well again hasnt been golden but tell me again where he is wrong? wait...let me guess...you think his only role is play calling...and his resume is only about that?

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Paintballr Newbie

Paintballr

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Now you are just losing it dude. noone gives a damn about whether he developed players because developing players in not an OC job ( that is what coaches are for) For a suit like him//all anyone cares about is what the people under him did. Weird how management works like that isnt it? thats ist not about what YOU do...but rather what the people under you do actually do. IN that regard him as an OC and managing the offense...well again hasnt been golden but tell me again where he is wrong? wait...let me guess...you think his only role is play calling...and his resume is only about that?



No one cares about his development of players as a QB coach? He has been a QB coach 3 out of the 6 jobs he has had in the past 20 years.

I'm not going to pretend I understand every single aspect of what his role is and isn't. But as a position coach, you develop, coach etc.

His role as a OC isn't to develop those players but he has only had this role twice in 20 years. Us, and the Bucs. Like you said, all anyone cares/management cares is what the players under him do/represent him. What in his time in Tampa, Alabama, and Carolina screams "he is the right person for this job".

If he really is that great, and has shown such greatness as a OC in Carolina, why haven't teams been desperate to knock down he door to get him? Hell our DC has had more interviews for a HC job in 5 years than he has had in 20 years.


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coralreefer_1 Newbie

coralreefer_1

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17 hours ago, Paintballr said:

 


No one cares about his development of players as a QB coach? He has been a QB coach 3 out of the 6 jobs he has had in the past 20 years.

I'm not going to pretend I understand every single aspect of what his role is and isn't. But as a position coach, you develop, coach etc.

His role as a OC isn't to develop those players but he has only had this role twice in 20 years. Us, and the Bucs. Like you said, all anyone cares/management cares is what the players under him do/represent him. What in his time in Tampa, Alabama, and Carolina screams "he is the right person for this job".

If he really is that great, and has shown such greatness as a OC in Carolina, why haven't teams been desperate to knock down he door to get him? Hell our DC has had more interviews for a HC job in 5 years than he has had in 20 years.


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That i cannot say. I dont care enough about this argument to research his pre-Panthers days. I only care about this team...and could not care less about what he did prior to joining this team.

But the window of progression and improvement is very different. For players....they are lucky if they get 10 years to make their name. Most dont even make it that long at this level. "Suits" however have a much longer timeline in this game ( by suits, i means coaches, coordinaters, anyone not in pads geting beat te fug up each week)

With that in mind...their timeline is very different. I never said he we a great coordinator. I did suggest however that based on the latest history of the team he has been the OC of....his trend is far more up than it is down in terms of his resume. ( you will note the psot i commented on was about his resume with previous schools). I know most dont like it because we are suckling...but as far as Shula is concerned....regardless of what WE feel...his stock is trending upwards. That doesnt mean we should keep him because im done with him also...but lets not deny the man his due. He didnt MAKE it...but he is just as much deserving of the credit we have had over the last few years as anyone

 

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Darvinsun Collaborator

Darvinsun

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2 hours ago, coralreefer_1 said:

what screams at his resume it the last few. You know...the one where his offense won the division the last 3....where his QB won MVP...there the coach was named coach of the year,where his offense was the highest scoring % wise last year.  Not saying he is great.....but those arent not things that look bad on a resume.

 

Again, the eyes of a fan...and the eyes of a GM are very different. far less men have been hired to far greater positions for far less

At the same time, how much credit is given to the players..look at what cam did with previous coordinator..if carolina had the defense when cam first came in ..may have won the SB.  Cam can make any coordinator look good he is a beast..thats why no one will hire him they understand that...coordinators  have to be able to create good matchups and taking advantage of those.  Thats something he is not good at. 

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