If Gettleman hired his own coach, would you trust he'll make the right decision?

[CRA]

21 minutes ago, panthers1234 said:

Heres the thing when your picking in the mid to late 20s all the "sure things" are off the table. You don't think he wants a starter to play right away. When its our turn to pick we usually pick someone who expected to go soon anyway. Its not like we know the other potential draft picks will become starters right away. 

but when you draft Shaq....you basically close the door on him being a legit starter right away by the pure pick itself.  That is my point.  So let's say you hit on Shaq (which I think we did), you now have a starting caliber player...who watches from the sideline on way too many plays.  Basically by design, if you hit on players it limits the impact it does for your team.

[SmokinwithWilly]

While I agree regarding wanting your 1st round rookie to be an instant contributor, I can appreciate the Shaq and Butler picks for what they are, depth and insurance. If you look at our D, the biggest area we are going to notice the drop off due to injury is in our LB corps, which is the heart of our defense, and the DT position. Losing Luke/TD or Star/KK for the season would be  potentially backbreaking for our D. While Shaq and Butler were luxury picks so to speak, they provide a lesser drop in talent during the season while giving us a short seasoned replacement if we lose a player during the offseason to FA or retirement.

Of course, then you have to do the opposite regarding rookies being better than what you currently have. It's a calculated gamble, and with 1st rounders, you need to rely on getting a solid player rather than gamble on a Kiper HoF. 

Regarding the OPs initial question, it's hard to say. He did give Rivera the extension so I in some ways see that as an extended hiring. I think he could find the right coach, but the bigger question should be, is he willing to fire Ron. 

[CRA]

16 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

 I think he could find the right coach, but the bigger question should be, is he willing to fire Ron. 

but the question need to be asked...is our downfall from being a 15-1 Super Bowl team.... mainly a coaching issue or a team that had one of it's strength dismantled this offseason and legitimately none of the weak roster holes addressed last offseason?

 think Richardson needs to really make sure he knows why his team stinks right now.

[SmokinwithWilly]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

but the question need to be asked...is our downfall from being a 15-1 Super Bowl team.... mainly a coaching issue or a team that had one of it's strength dismantled this offseason and legitimately none of the weak roster holes addressed last offseason?

 think Richardson needs to really make sure he knows why his team stinks right now.

I think it's multiple things causing problems.

1. Our o-line was exposed in the SB. We can't compete on the edges and we all know that. Plans have to made to address that by the OC. Quick slants, screens, misdirection, plays to get the ball out of the hands of our QB fast. Our OC needs to be creative to compensate for what defenses throw at us, Shula is just going to Shula. And for fug's sake, get rid of the read option. This isn't a high school or college game, that poo don't work here. 

2. Combined with 1, our coaches are too loyal to certain players, mainly Dickson and Tolbert. Those wheels have fallen off the damn bus. If these guys can't get the job done, find someone who can. At this point I'll take heart over talent because that's what some of these guys seem to lack. One of Rivera's weaknesses has been his loyalty to players that just aren't getting it done over guys that are hungry for a W. 

3. Over-confidence. We got the swag bitch slapped out of us in the SB and we haven't recovered. This team has no swag. It's almost like they don't believe they can win, and last year, they didn't believe they could lose. I don't know if that's more on the players or the coaches, but I'm going to put Rivera in the hot seat for it. He's ultimately responsible. 

4. Cam knows the refs don't have his back. The NFL has signed off on opposing D's taking their best illegal shot and Cam is suffering because of it. I think of it this way, it's like being hit with a paintball gun. Sure you're going to get a welt or 2 from a legit paintball, but that's part of it. Cam is taking paintballs with a few rubber bullets mixed in. After the first one, you know it's going to hurt  a hell of a lot worse and you can't help but flinch when you see one coming because you don't know which one you are going to get. 

There are some player holes but I don't think those are the main contributor. Our D secondary has suffered, but our D line's lack of production is the main cause IMO. If opposing QBs aren't getting 5-7 seconds to drop back and scan for receivers, it's a whole different ball game in that secondary. Our offense has been abysmal. Sure there are games that it look good on the stat sheet, but those are against really bad defenses. This offense is out of sync completely. Our team looks more unprepared than ever. That I put squarely on the coaches. G-man has his responsibility for some of this, but I would say it's about a 70-30 split, coaches vs G-man. 

[CRA]

41 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I think it's multiple things causing problems.

1. Our o-line was exposed in the SB. We can't compete on the edges and we all know that. Plans have to made to address that by the OC. Quick slants, screens, misdirection, plays to get the ball out of the hands of our QB fast. Our OC needs to be creative to compensate for what defenses throw at us, Shula is just going to Shula. And for fug's sake, get rid of the read option. This isn't a high school or college game, that poo don't work here. 

2. Combined with 1, our coaches are too loyal to certain players, mainly Dickson and Tolbert. Those wheels have fallen off the damn bus. If these guys can't get the job done, find someone who can. At this point I'll take heart over talent because that's what some of these guys seem to lack. One of Rivera's weaknesses has been his loyalty to players that just aren't getting it done over guys that are hungry for a W. 

3. Over-confidence. We got the swag bitch slapped out of us in the SB and we haven't recovered. This team has no swag. It's almost like they don't believe they can win, and last year, they didn't believe they could lose. I don't know if that's more on the players or the coaches, but I'm going to put Rivera in the hot seat for it. He's ultimately responsible. 

4. Cam knows the refs don't have his back. The NFL has signed off on opposing D's taking their best illegal shot and Cam is suffering because of it. I think of it this way, it's like being hit with a paintball gun. Sure you're going to get a welt or 2 from a legit paintball, but that's part of it. Cam is taking paintballs with a few rubber bullets mixed in. After the first one, you know it's going to hurt  a hell of a lot worse and you can't help but flinch when you see one coming because you don't know which one you are going to get. 

There are some player holes but I don't think those are the main contributor. Our D secondary has suffered, but our D line's lack of production is the main cause IMO. If opposing QBs aren't getting 5-7 seconds to drop back and scan for receivers, it's a whole different ball game in that secondary. Our offense has been abysmal. Sure there are games that it look good on the stat sheet, but those are against really bad defenses. This offense is out of sync completely. Our team looks more unprepared than ever. That I put squarely on the coaches. G-man has his responsibility for some of this, but I would say it's about a 70-30 split, coaches vs G-man. 

1.  Cam's weakest throws are the quick throws and our super large WRs and bad Ginn often struggle with getting quick releases and separation.  I don't think scheming it up is that simplistically done.

as far as the read goes, Carolina is horrible at traditional run blocking. People bash the zone read as not working and then gloss over the hard fact our run game has been the most consistently productive ones in the NFL for yearS now because of it.   Not traditional obviously but the production can't be denied. So if we want to get rid of the read get a real run blocking OL.

2. 100% agree

3.  75% agree, think our swag died week 1 technically. 

4.  Agree on Cam

but I think the DB hole is big.  I also think the DE hole is just as big and was masked by a legit secondary and studs at DT/LB last year. 

If you watched only the first half of games this year we look almost like the same team as last year on O (just not the late second half version).   OL has been an issue but given we maintained 100% health last year we were able to work around it. Last season Shula gave the OL far more help IMO than acknowledged around here.   This year, IMO it all goes back to Wade as I said before basically calling out the league....it can't hold for 4 quarters.  Talent gap is too big overall vs good fronts.  Teams no longer allow the scheming help to be as effective.  This year we haven't been healthy on the OL which compounds it worse. 

But Dave is right about one thing, big bodies up front allow you to compete and we don't have them.  We have been aiding and helping them every game dating back to last season.  Well is drying up.  Solution is being able to compete up front IMO

[Cpt slay a ho]

At this point idgaf, don't like the direction the team is taking but wtf can you really do other then buckle up and hope the guys getting paid millions know what they're doing


Sent from my iPhone using CarolinaHuddle

[PantherBuckeye89]

1) Leave Vernon Butler, and by proxy Shaq, alone. Butler was coming along nicely and got hurt. He wasn't intended to be a stud this year anyway. Butler was basically Gettleman avoiding a disaster this coming offseason with Short like he has had with Hardy and Norman. Did I personally want Butler in the moment, no I didn't. I wanted Kevin Dodd, who I have been following and noticed he has been misplaced as a 3-4 OLB. Were we messed up this year was taking Bradberry at the end of the second. I like Bradberry a lot actually, but we should have grabbed Carl Nassib at the end of the 2nd and then traded back up in the 3rd for Bradberry. I can do without Worley. That should have been a veteran plug band aid. But now that I sit here, I'm glad we have big Vern for next season. Quite frankly, he is a better physical prospect than Short and is built to hold up better against the run. Now, If I was GM, I'd tag Short, hope he signs the tag, and then shop him if a good deal can't be reached and get something in return. As far as Shaq goes, TD is an old man in football life playing on a bum wheel. He can go at anytime. We need Shaq and we need to extend AJ Klein so in that sad scenario we can go SLB-Klein, MLB-Kuechly, WLB-Shaq.

2) If we hired a first time HC, I want Frank Reich damnit. If we go retread, I want Jim Schwartz.

3) Knowing JR, if we hired an offensive minded coach, we would probably end up with a Russ Grimm :/

[pantherclaw]

Rivera isn't going to be fired. 

Moot point.

[NJPanthers12]

9 hours ago, CRA said:

I don't trust Dave with a first round pick at this point

This is so incredibly dumb and short sighted. What Gettleman did with this team in salary cap hell was nothing short of brilliant. This franchise has been nothing but pathetic and inconsistent since day 1 but everyone worships Jerry Richardson.

it would be an utter travesty if Gettleman is let go before he has the opportunity to hire his own coach. Take jerry Richardson out of the picture, who is but far hands down the number one problem with this franchise, Ron Rivera is clearly the second biggest issue.

[stratopanther]

Forgive my naivety but is there any reason the pats DC Matt Patricia wouldnt be in head coach consideration? He has experience on both sides of the ball and it seems like the pats always overachieve on defense given their personnel.

[OneBadCat]

10 hours ago, CRA said:

last 2 first round picks have been drafted with their intention to be depth and rotational for at least their first few seasons.  I'm not questioning the players in terms of talent.

But if you claim you want to build your team through the draft and start going consecutive drafts where you spend your first round picks on guys intended to be backups?  I think it is a realistic argument your team on the field will start feeling the effects of it.  In today's NFL people expect those picks to produce and produce soon.  By design our last couple haven't be intended to do so.  So even if you hit a draft pick out of the park and they sit on the sideline....it then begins to limit the impact and change they could make for a team.   You can nail a draft pick and hardly improve your team at all. 

Now if you aren't a team that puts the extreme emphasis on building through the draft I wouldn't take as much issue with it.  

Goes back to the days of debating if we should extend Williams and Stewart.  Having a bunch of great players at one spot is a great talking point.  But you can never get around the fact your high investment assets are spending a lot of time watching from the sideline.  Hate me for it, but at least I am consistent about the logic.

For example, I actually like Shaq the player more than the average huddler does (and he is pretty popular).  But unless something happens to Luke or TD we aren't going to get the most out of what he can provide under his rookie deal.  Same goes for Butler.  

so it isn't about the players ability but more roster management and building a well rounded team.  Haven't liked the last 2 drafts in the first round and his last offseason in term of building this roster....and it is a what have you done for me lately business.

I agree with you here. The past two first rounders were good calls talent wise. However DG drafted as if they were either A. A luxury pick or B. He outsmarted himself by giving gaining leverage with KK at the expense of neglecting the rest of the roster.

As much as Butler has played this year you can pretty much say we didn't need him much at all. Could have had Henry backing up Stewart and starting for several weeks. His ability probably would have won us a few games.

[NJPanthers12]

It's just dumb to say Derrick Henry would have won us a few games 

[PantherBuckeye89]

1 hour ago, stratopanther said:

Forgive my naivety but is there any reason the pats DC Matt Patricia wouldnt be in head coach consideration? He has experience on both sides of the ball and it seems like the pats always overachieve on defense given their personnel.

Good question

[FuFuLamePoo]

I feel like he'd hire Coughlin, and I could live with that