Along the Sidelines - Chiefs at Panthers

[SOJA]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

We went 15-1 and made the Super Bowl....

Then Dave has a horrible offseason 

....and people talking about Rivera when the holes that slap you in in face where visible before the first game of the season.

I don't care if you want to scream that Ron or Shula or Cam should be fired but the first breath out of your mouth needs to be Dave 

did Dave miss the FG against Den?

did Dave concuss Cam?

did Dave concuss Oher?

did Dave injure Kalil?

 

Yes Gettleman had a poor offseason- probably his worst one yet- outside of the Byron Bell/Nate Chandler debacle. He deserves part of the blame, but to say he is the primary cause of our problems is short-sighted. 

[Mage]

15 minutes ago, CRA said:

Guess I would need an approved list of who qualifies as a franchise QB and when in their career they qualified 

Will only a 4-12 season qualify or can we also include a range from 4-12 to 6-10? Because really what is the difference?

Phillip Rivers and the Chargers went 4-12 in 2015, Eli Manning and Giants 6-10 in 2015 and 2014.  

 

Yea and McCoy is a bad head coach.

Coughlin is iffy but clearly out of his realm during his waning years.

[CRA]

15 minutes ago, SOJA said:

did Dave miss the FG against Den?

did Dave concuss Cam?

did Dave concuss Oher?

did Dave injure Kalil?

 

Yes Gettleman had a poor offseason- probably his worst one yet- outside of the Byron Bell/Nate Chandler debacle. He deserves part of the blame, but to say he is the primary cause of our problems is short-sighted. 

Dave is the foundation/root of our overall problem.  But yes, people then can make their own mistakes when trying to deal with a situation they found themselves in in 2016

 

 

[CRA]

10 minutes ago, Mage said:

Yea and McCoy is a bad head coach.

Coughlin is iffy but clearly out of his realm during his waning years.

that was kinda my point about needing an approved list.  

Kurt Warner IMO is a HOFer.  I think his first 2 seasons in AZ the team went like 3-13 when starting and the NYG didn't win with him the year before either. 

But with talented rosters Warner was a beast in AZ and St. Louis before after all those games. HOF worthy IMO.

I have always viewed the NFL has player talent driven...most coaching to me is a push.  Jason Garrett suddenly learn how to coach or is he just watching simplistic play work with new players?

[Mage]

I don't think Gettleman is all that great of a GM either.  But it isn't like we didn't have a chance to win multiple games this year.  Horrible adjusting in the second half is what constantly kills us.  It's always been an issue regardless of talent.  

[Mage]

Just now, CRA said:

that was kinda my point about needing an approved list.  

Kurt Warner IMO is a HOFer.  I think his first 2 seasons in AZ the team went like 3-13 when starting and the NYG didn't win with him the year before either. 

But with talented rosters Warner was a beast in AZ and St. Louis before after all those games. HOF worthy IMO.

I have always viewed the NFL has player talent driven...most coaching to me is a push.  Jason Garrett suddenly learn how to coach or is he just watching simplistic play work with new players?

I think you are missing my point.  I'm not asking about franchise QBs specifically.  I'm asking when has a good coach who had a good quarterback finished with a terrible record like we're likely going to.  Good coaches with good QBs don't tend to go 4-12/6-10.

As far as Jason Garrett, the Cowboys have always won 8 or more games with him as HC other than last year when they had nothing but straight garbage at QB.  And other than this year, lets not act like the Cowboys have had considerably more talent.  Especially not defensively.  Garrett has always been a really good head coach and he surrounds himself with very good coordinators.

[CRA]

1 minute ago, Mage said:

I think you are missing my point.  I'm not asking about franchise QBs specifically.  I'm asking when has a good coach who had a good quarterback finished with a terrible record like we're likely going to.  Good coaches with good QBs don't tend to go 4-12/6-10.

As far as Jason Garrett, the Cowboys have always won 8 or more games with him as HC other than last year when they had nothing but straight garbage at QB.  And other than this year, lets not act like the Cowboys have had considerably more talent.  Especially not defensively.  Garrett has always been a really good head coach and he surrounds himself with very good coordinators.

I think Rivera is a great defensive mind.  Despite his COY awards I don't think he has ever been really a good HC.

to me Rivera has always = Cam.  So I endorse Rivera for that.  I think if Cam is surrounded by a complete team then we have a Super Bowl caliber team.  Roster is just weak around Cam. 

Good coaching doesn't solve our issues.  We actually have great defensive coaching and the issues are too much.  Heck, even vs one of the worst passing attacks in the NFL they had wide open big plays to be had....they just sucked too bad to hit them on us

[Mage]

23 minutes ago, CRA said:

I think Rivera is a great defensive mind.  Despite his COY awards I don't think he has ever been really a good HC.

to me Rivera has always = Cam.  So I endorse Rivera for that.  I think if Cam is surrounded by a complete team then we have a Super Bowl caliber team.  Roster is just weak around Cam. 

Good coaching doesn't solve our issues.  We actually have great defensive coaching and the issues are too much.  Heck, even vs one of the worst passing attacks in the NFL they had wide open big plays to be had....they just sucked too bad to hit them on us

I agree, I love our defensive coaching.  We always overachieve in the secondary and I give Rivera/McDermott/Wilks props for that.

I'm not saying Rivera is a terrible coach or he's the root of our problem.  Just that he's very flawed.  He can't adjust and never seems to vary from status quo, which is why we always look a lot worse in the second half.  Teams adapt to us.  With that said, we could do worse.  We could do better.  He's middle of the pack for me.  So I'm not saying we should fire him tomorrow or anything, but I wouldn't be against us eventually moving on.  It's frustrating knowing a 17 point or more lead isn't ever safe.

[CRA]

6 minutes ago, Mage said:

I agree, I love our defensive coaching.  We always overachieve in the secondary and I give Rivera/McDermott/Wilks props for that.

I'm not saying Rivera is a terrible coach or he's the root of our problem.  Just that he's very flawed.  He can't adjust and never seems to vary from status quo, which is why we always look a lot worse in the second half.  Teams adapt to us.  With that said, we could do worse.  We could do better.  He's middle of the pack for me.  So I'm not saying we should fire him tomorrow or anything, but I wouldn't be against us eventually moving on.  It's frustrating knowing a 17 point or more lead isn't ever safe.

I guess my biggest complaint is people continuously talk about adjusting to solve the issues and the failures of the coaches.

if you play a complete opposing unit....there isn't a means to scheme around your issues all game.  They find out how you are choosing to hide your weakness vs them and counter punch.  People blast them for not coming back from the counter punch with another scheme....and I just don't think there are that many ways around a weak area vs a good unit. 

Atlanta game out the window...our coaches have done a good job scheming around weakness.  Hence our leads at half.  Issue is solid units playing a half to figure out what lengths we have to go to in order to function and counter it.  Only real counter punch is to tempt odds and hang your weakness back out there and hope to get lucky IMO on a counter. 

So to me it goes back to the roster.  Coaches have in fact schemed well outside Atl but once units have halftime to see it....they counter it.  Don't think you can reasonably put that on coach not be able to scheme around all the weakness over and then over again.  The issue is your team is the one with the glaring talent  holes at key spots.  

Always goes back to Dave.  Plus I am a firm believer the NFL is about windows.  Talk Patriots all you want but they are anomaly in today's NFL.  Gotta win now while you can and Dave opted for more a Patriot viewpoint with the offseason and now we pay the price.  Sucks most for guys like Davis.  

[Rastlet]

2 hours ago, SOJA said:

did Dave miss the FG against Den?

did Dave concuss Cam?

did Dave concuss Oher?

did Dave injure Kalil?

 

Yes Gettleman had a poor offseason- probably his worst one yet- outside of the Byron Bell/Nate Chandler debacle. He deserves part of the blame, but to say he is the primary cause of our problems is short-sighted. 

I believe the problem every one has with Dave is the fact that the holes we have on the roster didn't have to be there this year. The team was for the most part intact and we didn't need the roster dismantling we got. If you keep Norman instead of letting your ego get in the way then you don't have to waste a whole draft reaching. Now that may pan out down the road but for this year we wasted opportunities on what should have been a playoff team.

[raleigh-panther]

4 hours ago, Snake said:

Stop being butt hurt. Most teams that year didn't see 7 wins. We also overachieved last year with 15 wins. More wins than we ever had in a season . 

Quoting Parcells, 'you are what your record says you are'

from profootball reference

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/RiveRo0.htm

i think this tells it  I think Ron Rivera is a good man and an average coach but his downfall will be not upgrading his coaching staff and reinventing himself  he has to or the Panthers will be passed by

just like offensive stats  who cares  what matters is situation opportunity and execution  

imho what we have with Rivera we have and several p,athers have gotten a step slow quickly  same mistakes year after year  we all know it

 

[Fox007]

5 hours ago, thomas96 said:

 Should Giants fans not have been celebrating their 9-7 season in 2011?

That would be what we call a winning record. Why would you denounce a winning season....we haven't had back to back yet and 9-7 would have been fantastic over 7-9 as 7-9 is what we call a losing record. Big difference. 

[t96]

Just now, Fox007 said:

That would be what we call a winning record. Why would you denounce a winning season....we haven't had back to back yet and 9-7 would have been fantastic over 7-9 as 7-9 is what we call a losing record. Big difference. 

7-8-1 is really a big difference from 9-7 when both make the playoffs in the exact same spot?

[B.BERSIN]

I do miss this thread!


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