Big Vern

[4Corners]

didn't care for the pick when it was made, and can't say I've seen much to change my opinion. Honestly, don't see him contributing much this season. Hope I'm wrong. 

[CPantherKing]

17 hours ago, TN05 said:

Hunter Henry is a better pick, but again - a luxury pick. We don't worry about Greg retiring or leaving anytime soon. We are worried that KK or Star might leave. In that case, we wanted to make sure we'd have a guy who could replace either - and, if not, could be a solid backup. It's similar logic to the Shaq Thompson pick, except that also had the added idea we might lose AJ Klein in free agency. The logic there is solid.

It is not a luxury pick when they need a 3rd down receiver with reliable hands since they let Cotchery go.

Letting go of players without a capable replacement continues to plague this team.

16 hours ago, Promethean Forerunner said:

Vernon has already made an impact. Prior to last Sunday, he had more hits and pressures than Short this season.

Butler has only been in on 63 defensive snaps. Leonard Johnson leapfrogged him in one game. Where do you come up with these stats? There are several Panthers players listed for hurries, but Butler is not one of them.

This is the impact Butler has made:

 

He also kept TD from intercepting a ball and taking to the house on an errant screen pass by Bradford that Kuechly created. Butler did not try to intercept the lobbed ball with open field. Instead, he spiked it into the ground. You can clearly see KK and TD frustrated with Butler's decision.

Both plays directly impacted losses for the Panthers. In his limited action, Butler has been getting beat physically and making some bad decisions.

Love > Butler

[ncfan]

7 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

It is not a luxury pick when they need a 3rd down receiver with reliable hands since they let Cotchery go.

Letting go of players without a capable replacement continues to plague this team.

Butler has only been in on 63 defensive snaps. Leonard Johnson leapfrogged him in one game. Where do you come up with these stats? There are several Panthers players listed for hurries, but Butler is not one of them.

This is the impact Butler has made:

 

He also kept TD from intercepting a ball and taking to the house on an errant screen pass by Bradford that Kuechly created. Butler did not try to intercept the lobbed ball with open field. Instead, he spiked it into the ground. You can clearly see KK and TD frustrated with Butler's decision.

Both plays directly impacted losses for the Panthers. In his limited action, Butler has been getting beat physically and making some bad decisions.

Love > Butler

That was in his first game.

Also kid is Young from a smaller school its going to take him a min. He has shown flashes of his athletic ability and motor at times. I remember KK Short struggling a little coming in.  

[Mvp2014]

36 minutes ago, 15 said:

what?!

Butler has been out the last month, that is why he has only seen that many snaps.

the gif you just should completely contradicts what you you are trying to say. Butler forced a double team and clogged up the middle which is his job. this opened that huge lane on the left side where Bene, Coleman, and Shaq all should have been to take down the FB. you literally could not have picked a worse play to show.

and if you honestly think that TD and our coaches were disappointed in Butler getting a pass deflection instead of letting the ball go over his head - somehow knowing that TD was there and would pick it off, you're even dumber than I thought.

 

 

Not to mention KK who got pushed right out of the way.  Butler is the only one who DID do his job haha

[Omega Atrocity]

I love how we're all jumping on Butler. He is a rookie D-Lineman who has looked pretty damn good out there, especially considering how garbage our line has been this year. He's been injured, he's not a healthy scratch. Really solid promising prospect who about this time next year will probably be making a lot of people on here look stupid.

[TN05]

1 hour ago, CPantherKing said:

It is not a luxury pick when they need a 3rd down receiver with reliable hands since they let Cotchery go.

It's absolutely a luxury pick. Olsen, Benjamin, and Brown are all our third-down targets. We don't get receivers that fit only one role, but many roles. Ginn is a deep threat and short route threat. Kelvin and Olsen are great all-around receivers. Funchess can play any WR position. Brown is a sure-handed receiver that can be an effective deep threat if needed.

We don't need a tight end. It would be nice to have another tight end, but we don't need one and in the near future we don't likely have a situation where we need one. Butler isn't a luxury because the defensive line is by nature a rotational position, plus he's insurance if Short or Star leave. If that were the case, we'd need another defensive tackle - and even if both stay, you can never have too many good defensive tackles.

Quote

Letting go of players without a capable replacement continues to plague this team.

It's a problem that seems to be correcting itself mid-season. We let Steve go, and it hurt for like eight games. Then players like Brown and Cotchery emerged, along with Kelvin. This year, we had a rough start at corner (albeit one that had a lot to do with injury) - but now, Worley looks solid, Johnson looks like a great pickup, and Bradberry is a top 10 corner when healthy. That's on top of McClain, who has played well when we need him to.

The only position we never truly filled was defensive end, and that wasn't Gettleman's fault. That was Greg Hardy's fault for getting in that situation. Him leaving has fugged up our pass rush for the last two years. But if last game is an indication, that might be changing.

Quote

Butler has only been in on 63 defensive snaps. Leonard Johnson leapfrogged him in one game. Where do you come up with these stats? There are several Panthers players listed for hurries, but Butler is not one of them.

This is the impact Butler has made:

 

He also kept TD from intercepting a ball and taking to the house on an errant screen pass by Bradford that Kuechly created. Butler did not try to intercept the lobbed ball with open field. Instead, he spiked it into the ground. You can clearly see KK and TD frustrated with Butler's decision.

Both plays directly impacted losses for the Panthers. In his limited action, Butler has been getting beat physically and making some bad decisions.

Love > Butler

You realize that was KK being shoved away, not Butler, right?

[Cpt slay a ho]

He will be fine, but still didn't like the pick


Sent from my iPhone using CarolinaHuddle

[CPantherKing]

5 hours ago, 15 said:

Butler forced a double team and clogged up the middle which is his job. this opened that huge lane on the left side where Bene, Coleman, and Shaq all should have been to take down the FB.

Wrong. Watch it again and see where the LoS is. Ask yourself why the LBs are being blocked by Butler and 3 OL.

5 hours ago, ncfan said:

I remember KK Short struggling a little coming in.  

Exactly my point. Butler is struggling. You can not say he is making an impact and then ramble about how he is a young rookie making mistakes. He is a liability and has shown little to nothing this season. Kony Ealy is still struggling.

4 hours ago, TN05 said:

You realize that was KK being shoved away, not Butler, right?

That was not KK being shoved away. KK is pursuing down the LoS and was in position to stop the run had the 1 tech DT set the LoS. Everyone TRUSTED Butler to set the LoS and he was pushed back 4 yards into the LBs. Butler was the SOLE reason for that hole being as large as it was. All Butler had to do was stone the OL at the LoS and that play is stopped from going the distance. He did not even have to get penetration or push.

Anyone who can not see a 1 tech DT getting pushed back and creating a 4 yard hole while cutting off all the LBs does not understand the responsibilities of each position. Just sit back and cheer the big plays.

Butler was the SOLE reason for that big play by a FB going the distance. No one is expecting the 1 tech DT to get blown back into the LBs and making everyone else play in space. Whenever you see Butler at the 1 tech, you know it is an easy 5 yard gain for any RB in the league.

Also, he did not draw a double. The 1 tech DT on a power run is a natural double team. They are suppose to dig in and NOT get pushed back. Even if that means falling to the ground in between the double team to take up space. The one thing you can NEVER do at that spot on any level of the game is get driven back into the LBs.

This is the same garbage you can see in several of Butler's college games.

[CPantherKing]

1 hour ago, 15 said:

HE WAS FUGGING DOUBLE TEAMED

And you are NEVER suppose to get pushed back into the LBs with a double team. They teach you to split a double and stop the push at a young age.

You never played the game. This is clear.

DTs who get pushed back by double teams like that have a very short career.

[CPantherKing]

1 hour ago, 15 said:

dude you posted the worst gif you could have ever posted to make a player look bad. he BARELY got pushed back on a double team, even if he split those guards he would've over pursued the play and the lack of awareness by Bene and the LB's are what stood out most on that play.

you have no idea how to review tape and you have no idea how the position is played. you gotta chalk this one up as another loss and move on because you look VERY stupid right now. 

If he split the double and simply fell to the ground at the LoS, that play is stopped without a 4 yard hole and the FB running directly into KK. All the other players would have been in the correct position had Butler held the LoS.

He was pushed back 4 yards into the LBs. That is a lot. The FB did not have to worry about anything until he was 4 yards past the LoS.

Count the yards. 1. 2. 3. 4. Not hard. 4 yards is barely? You do realize a team only needs 10 yards for a 1st down?

Need to line the LBs 8 yards off the LoS if you have a DT like that.

If you can not see Butler screwing up Kuechly, then you have made your point.

[heel31ok]

On 11/1/2016 at 4:42 PM, Malt Liquor said:

Then that means it was a wasted 1st round pick for him. We should've drafted 
Derrick Henry. Atleast we've had a running back for the future, after Jonathan Steward is done.

[CPantherKing]

1 hour ago, 15 said:

yes, in a perfect world if Butler timed the snap perfectly and split the guards before they could even get into position and make a tackle as the FB was taking the handoff, all in his first game at the NFL level against the superbowl champs - sure he would've made a tackle or at least slowed the runner down.

you are nit picking too an extreme level though, and this was a terrible gif to use to try and prove a point. I could post gifs like this of some of the best DT's in the league including KK short (who was pushed around more than Butler on this play).

also, the fact that you are over looking the failed assignments and pursuit of Bene, Coleman, and Shaq - is a tell tale sign that you are just trying to force your point without being logical. 

try again.

3rd and 1.

How far should a 1 tech get pushed off the ball on 3rd and 1?

Everyone knows the 1 tech will be doubled on 3rd and 1.

Here is another angle for you. Keep telling me Butler was not the reason for this play. They ran the ball directly at him as EXPECTED.

Run Vernon run! You should have been on the ground destroying the OLs blocks at the 28. He stood up on a double team. Stood up.

[CPantherKing]

1 hour ago, 15 said:

oh my god this angle is even better.

look at Addison hesitate in the back field when he could've made an easy TFL due to the middle being clogged up by Butler.

watch Bene, Addison, Shaq, and Coleman all over pursue and fail to make an easy play while the rookie gets double teamed.

just....WOW

You do not understand angles and responsibilities. That entire 3rd and 1 run was predicated on Butler to set the play. Everyone trusted him. He let them all down. No one expected the FB to be 3 yards past the 1st down marker before he came off his block. Butler busted all their angles with his busted play.

He was a mess that entire drive. The coaches should have never had him in the game during that situation.

You clearly have trouble judging your depth. If you think Addison was close to the FB, you need to stop now. Addison was 3 yards to the right of the hash when the FB, who was on the hash, made his cut to the right behind his blockers who had pushed Butler 4 yards down field after he was 3 yards past the 1st down marker on 3rd and 1.

 

[CPantherKing]

1 hour ago, 15 said:

THAT ROOKIES GOTTA BLOW UP THE LINE EVERY SINGLE PLAY AND MAKE A TFL. WE CAN'T DEPEND ON SEVERAL VETERANS RUNNING IN UNBLOCKED TO MAKE A PLAY FOR CHRIST SAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!