Let's have a rational conversation about our GM

[The Lobo]

14 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

1. 7-8-1 is not a good season. 2013 was a hands off season for Gettleman per JR. 2015 was definitely a good year and the match ups favored the Panthers weak points at OT and DE. I was pleasantly surprised at how the front office approached the secondary in 2015 given its debacle with the secondary in 2014. I thought they figured it out and may just replace Harper. Nope. They found a unit that worked well together and blew it up, because it is so easy to find a franchise CB and safety (Coleman) who work well together. Bad mistake, but this GM loves to start at square one and build, so it should not have been a surprise.

2. The cap was never a problem outside of 2013, and I believe the Panthers did just fine in that cap strapped year with the foundation they had built. Some make it sound like the salary cap was a huge issue for 5 to 10 seasons. It was one season, and it was easily managed. This myth of a salary cap holding the team back has always been ridiculous. A child could have managed the salary cap from 2013 to 2015.

3. Unlucky? Having Cam, Kuechly, Kali, Stewart, and KK out for the season in the first 6 weeks would be unlucky. This pain in 2016 is self induced due  to cutting Norman, moving Coleman to SS, stocking the secondary with rookie CBs, neglecting the DE position, neglecting the OT position, neglecting the 3rd down slot receiver role, overpaying a kicker, and neglecting OL depth is not bad luck. All of that has had a direct effect on how the Panthers defense is now easy to game plan for and how the Panthers struggle to convert on 3rd down, which has led to giving up 2nd half leads.

4. The inability of the defense to create turnovers and stop offenses from scoring TDs following an offensive turnover is directly related to the secondary being ineffective and confused. As for penalties killing drives, this is negligible. The Panthers have had scoring drives/TDs that have included multiple penalties. The only time a penalty is an issue is when it keeps a drive from scoring. Look at the ratio of scoring drives to unsuccessful drives that have had at least 1 penalty. You will be surprised how this rarely impacts a drive.

I really feel like Funch could be a huge third down guy if we used him that way. Also, I never said it on here, but in the offseason I used to think you were a wack job...now I've seen the light. I apologize to you sir/ma'am. You were spot on about pretty much everything. 

[DeeJay]

6 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

You're in the wrong forum for rational discussions, dude.

There's plenty of rational discussion going on in All Pro.

You must 5 dollars for that... Only if jeremy gives us cheerleaders nudes I mean cheerleaders yeah

[carolinajay]

3 hours ago, uncfan888 said:

Most active hurney, I mean Cpk,  has been on this board.  Smh

He was quiet like a church mouse last year now he's a bull seeing red.

[CPantherKing]

2 minutes ago, carolinajay said:

not true

We know the cap is not a problem in 2016.

The cap was not a problem in 2015.

The Panthers had enough cap space to waste about $20m of it on Hardy and free agents who were admittedly terrible with their cuts midseason. So, 2014 was not a problem with cap space.

Please, which of those 3 season were so cap strapped that the Panthers could not sign free agents, franchise tag a player, have to cut key players to get under the cap, and carried over a negative cap into the following year?

Where is this terrible cap problem that has lasted for years?

[carolinajay]

3 hours ago, CPantherKing said:

Please, which of those 3 season were so cap strapped that the Panthers could not sign free agents, franchise tag a player, have to cut key players to get under the cap, and carried over a negative cap into the following year?

The panthers could not afford to pay Mike Mitchell (5yr/$25M) or Captain and they released Steve Smith who would have counted for $25M over 3 had he stayed on the roster.

Keeping a DE who recorded 15 sacks was the right move, Hardy's off the field situation derailed it. 

All the free agencies the panthers signed were relatively cheap (Harper, Jericho, Cason, etc) why do you think gettleman resorted to cheap free agents because he had an surplus of cap?

[FootballLivesMatter]

35 minutes ago, carolinajay said:

The panthers had $14M tied up to the tag throughout most of free agency. They weren't exactly working with $20-40M in cap space.The team didn't go cheap in 2011 and look what happened.

It happens. Sometimes it work sometimes I don't. Same with the last 2-3 years; it worked under Gman. 

 

But looking at history, JR doesn't spend $$$. 

[Proudiddy]

18 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

That's fair enough, but the link from the original interview with BBR even indicates that the agent negotiating the contract with Gettleman was a novice:

That to me gives the quote you found the context I was talking about. So we both read the same things, just interpreted it different ways. Although I will say that out of context in the framing of the article that you posted, it definitely paints the entire Norman contract fiasco as an ego issue, where the BBR paints it more as a no nonsense business issue. 

Well, maybe a lot of it has to do with the framing of the quotes by the author of each respective article, but regardless, CM...  Me and you both already knew Josh's first agent was an idiot.  So, we have that in context.  So, with that already being a known factor, again, I don't see how Dave saying that helped us business wise.  Perhaps it is hard for me to "un-interpret," for lack of a better term, the ego issue once I've read it the way it has been framed.  But, objectively, I still think the comments were unnecessary, and thus, took it beyond business.

If he felt that way about a novice agent, he could've voiced that directly to Josh or that agent.  He didn't need to get on his megaphone and tell the world.  That's where, even trying to look at it objectively, I have a hard time believing ego didn't play a role.  And even in the BBR article, look at the entirety of his quotes:

Quote

 

"I'd like to think agents have figured out they can't scare me; they can't squeeze me. I'm not going to panic. I'm not going to give money away. It's a waste of time," Gettleman said. "But if that's the attack they want to take, that's their business. I'm too old. I've been around too long to be scared."

Most GMs care about how their decisions now could affect the rest of their career. At 65, this is Gettleman's last job. He'll either win big or go down with his philosophies. Either way, the role isn't only about what he can do today to win a Super Bowl.

"I'm on that tightrope and I constantly have to look at the big picture. I can't make decisions sitting down in the weeds. I have to get way up here," Gettleman said, raising his left hand. "You get down in the weeds, you're going to make mistakes.

"I've seen too many mistakes made because people were afraid and people panicked."

Even with the other info the article gives surrounding the negotiations, that is essentially piling on.  And for what?  Like I said, if he wanted to make a statement and it's purely business, I think the unprecedented move of rescinding the tag on the top FA at his position when we could've kept him is quite a statement alone.  No one else in recent memory, possibly EVER, has done that.  So, why say these things in the press?

And this last point is my own interpretation but when combined with these statements I think it is sound and reasoned to believe - He has stated elsewhere, as has been mentioned here ad nauseam, that he wouldn't draft for need, and as he said here, he doesn't panic.  We then turned around and drafted a DT (KK insurance) and 3 corners (including one we traded up for).  Would that not suggest he acted a bit rashly in the Norman negotiations that he then had to dedicate that many resources to fix it?  As Voth even stated in that article, Norman would eventually sign the tag.  So, why dump him and then complicate things further, unless you got caught up in the moment and wanted to make a point?

[carolinajay]

3 hours ago, FootballLivesMatter said:

But looking at history, JR doesn't spend $$$. 

In 2011 he heard that and went out and paid big bucks. There is nothing wrong with spending money in free agency its just you got to spent it on the right players.

In 2011 Jonathan Josephs would have been a better signing than DeAngelo Williams. I had no problem with the CJ signing but the panthers overpaid in a lot of spots in 2011.

[Proudiddy]

29 minutes ago, The Lobo said:

I couldn't quote the rest of your article, but I didn't know his comments were causing a rift among the players. If true we may be in trouble for quite sometime. It makes sense the players would be irked by gettys comments. I'd bet he's gonna do damage control this offseason.

Yup.  It has been on my mind ever since.  Makes me wonder if that was some of the hangup in KK's negotiations as well (not stated, but covertly).

[The Lobo]

5 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Yup.  It has been on my mind ever since.  Makes me wonder if that was some of the hangup in KK's negotiations as well (not stated, but covertly).

What about Kelvin, Trai and Norwell? Scary 

[FootballLivesMatter]

20 minutes ago, carolinajay said:

In 2011 he heard that and went out and paid big bucks. There is nothing wrong with spending money in free agency its just you got to spent it on the right players.

In 2011 Jonathan Josephs would have been a better signing than DeAngelo Williams. I had no problem with the CJ signing but the panthers overpaid in a lot of spots in 2011.

Yup

[CPantherKing]

52 minutes ago, The Lobo said:

I really feel like Funch could be a huge third down guy if we used him that way. Also, I never said it on here, but in the offseason I used to think you were a wack job...now I've seen the light. I apologize to you sir/ma'am. You were spot on about pretty much everything. 

No worries. We all have our opinions.

That is why we are here.

As for Funchess, I wanted him in the second round. I did not want to give up 3 picks for him.

I hoped he could fill the void left by Cotchery on 3rd down. His catch % is well below 40% now, and it was around 45% last season. A 3rd down receiver needs to be around 60 to 70%.

It has been disappointing to see him struggle, but a receiver will not be around long with that rate of success. Funchess is currently 27th of 28 3rd down receivers in Panthers history (min 10 targets). Funchess has been targeted 21 times on 3rd down and has caught 8 passes for 7 first downs. He has had 14 drives stopped due to his inability to convert on 3rd down.

To put it into perspective, only 3 WRs have been targeted on 3rd down more than 100 plays - Steve Smith, Muhsin Muhammad, and Mark Carrier. Brandon LaFell is 4th with 86 targets and 47 receptions as a Panther. At Funchess' current success rate, he will need to move into 3rd all time with 124 targets on 3rd down to equal Brandon LaFell.

[The Lobo]

19 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

No worries. We all have our opinions.

That is why we are here.

As for Funchess, I wanted him in the second round. I did not want to give up 3 picks for him.

I hoped he could fill the void left by Cotchery on 3rd down. His catch % is well below 40% now, and it was around 45% last season. A 3rd down receiver needs to be around 60 to 70%.

It has been disappointing to see him struggle, but a receiver will not be around long with that rate of success. Funchess is currently 27th of 28 3rd down receivers in Panthers history (min 10 targets). Funchess has been targeted 21 times on 3rd down and has caught 8 passes for 7 first downs. He has had 14 drives stopped due to his inability to convert on 3rd down.

To put it into perspective, only 3 WRs have been targeted on 3rd down more than 100 plays - Steve Smith, Muhsin Muhammad, and Mark Carrier. Brandon LaFell is 4th with 86 targets and 47 receptions as a Panther. At Funchess' current success rate, he will need to move into 3rd all time with 124 targets on 3rd down to equal Brandon LaFell.

But is it all on him though? There have been many plays where he is wide open.

[PantherPhann89]

We just sign a 3rd if not 4th if not practice squad TE from New Orleans, Chris Manhertz. What's rational about that?